i already stated that the stimulus is more of a political gimmick than a real economic plan.

read much?

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So then Obama lied to us? It was all BS to get in office with no real plan as to how to help the country?

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Government Should Fear the People That Voted Them In!!

New Government=one that the President likes a GOP idea but then the Staff puts that Idea in a very DEEP HOLE.

Read HR143 get enlightment.

The Revolution Will not be Televised

he thinks it will help the country, and i do as well, but in a more superficial sense. its not going to prevent a collapse, because one was not impending. its a PR move. it makes government look all proactive and concerned. it will help in some places. to deny that is ignorant. it will save or create a few jobs, but who will know if its the 3 million talked about. bottom line is its not going to help or hurt a whole lot. regean and cheny said deficits don't matter, so the debt is not an issue.

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the only problem is they along with the times obama and the rest whipped this and gave it the press the WH wanted as it was Obamas team, and the figures he flogged. To make it appear that this was not, their plan and one they sued to advertise and propagandize the need for the stimulus is beyond denial.

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

And the winner is: MattLarson.

The kool-aid is strong in that one, Matt. No amount of factual evidence will let him admit that Obama is wrong.

i agree with times and the WH obama team, the appeance was not, as well, to deny the statistical, but yes they did push for the stimulus, and it was obama team doing so.

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G. Conclusions
This study has sought to investigate the likely job creation effects of the American Recovery and
Reinvestment Plan currently under consideration. As emphasized at many points in the analysis,
there is substantial uncertainty around all of our estimates. Nevertheless, we believe they can
provide useful guidance as we go forward. Among the key lessons from the analysis are:


right, this sounds more like an absolute claim than a prediction.

hmm, i am thinking of a word synonymous with estimate. i can't decide if it's 'absolute claim from obama' or 'casual prediction.'

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Yes I know how rates are set, it's based on the demand for mortgages in the secondary market. When Wall Street needs mortgages to turn into derivatives they pay a premium for the product, and they ignore the details about the actual product because they only need it to hold up for a few days while they transform that turd into a gold plated derivative.


started with the sub prime market, but the canary in the coal mine, the first thing that collapsed, the main problem was and still is the massive losses caused from writing Credit Default Swaps.

Now trying to blame an economic crisis on people who don't actually control very much in the way of money is a very appealing story to the racist wing of the GOP base. If you can't see that, it's not because it isn't there.

If it was just mortgages it would be a much smaller problem, it was Credit Default Swaps, an unregulated "insurance like" instrument that concentrated huge amounts of risk and promised huge rewards.
That risk factor was not understood by some, and understood too well by others, it was a scam, wrapping turds in gold foil and selling them as bullion.
What happened to Bear Stearns, AIG, Citi, etc.
They got wiped out by Credit Default Swaps.
That's what sucked all the liquidity out of the economy, that's what stalled the economy.

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“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address

Oh sure, the president made the claim as I recall as well. However, I still think that you guys are shootin off critisisms too quickly. This economy is extremely volatile and there is no silver bullet. Ya'know, don't forget, that when Obama took office he was very realistic about this crash and tried to get everyone to realize how serious it is: he was criticized for being too negative; "it was the president's job to be positive and smile about everything to encourage the markets", Now they criticize him for not being a realist .

I don't know what you're asking me to try. I just think that your logic is unreasonable given the reality.


Where is the end? The Republicans have been, since the president's oath of office engaging in a campaign of singular harrassment and obstructionism. They are going to make him fail at any cost, just like they were going to ruin Clinton: that's why he was impeached.

Unemployment is still going to drop realtive to the time it takes this stimulus to get going. So I think you guys are criticizing just to criticize really.

Or, they are set by the margins the lenders need in order to produce a profit based on the yield of the 10 year US Treasury.

Goob, you have the cart before the horse. The mortgages started to go bad, that's what caused the rest of the market to get F***ed. As I said, those derivatives returns and insurance products were based on historic default rates. We set the record for historic defaults so the pricing models fell apart, losses ensued and those markets collapsed. But they all collapsed because the investments they held (mortgages) didn't perform. Just remember that these problems started almost 4 years ago. CDSs just got hammered in the last year and a half or so.

I'm not a racist Goob so you need to back off on that. As explained above, and previoulsy, those mortgages started the mess. Once again, you seem to ignore that fact that Obama said it. So besides incompetent, he's a racist also? The only one that is racist here appears to be you because, for some reason, you think if someone is sub prime they must be black or hispanic or blue. I hate to break it to you but that market knows no race.

I agree with you about the CDSs. Although they were not specifically and wholly unregulated, there certainly was not enough oversite and like everything else, there are so many govt agencies involved, no one knew what the other was doing.

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"If you think about it, UPS and FedEx are doing just fine," he said. "It's the post office that's always having problems." Barack Obama on government run healthcare. 08/11/2009

American by birth.
Conservative by the grace of God.

Still sore about the war of northern aggression.

NOthing some more taxes wont solve. Like some environmental taxes, health care taxes. We will have to hire more IRS agents, so there ya go. Jobs Jobs Jobs.

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"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his father has acquired too much, in order to spare to others who (or whose fathers) have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, "to guarantee to everyone a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."

-Thomas Jefferson

These numbers are simply not an accurate reflection of the problem.

I know many people who have had their hours reduced and a few who have taken crap jobs. They have extended unemployment insurance and people are milking it for all it's worth. With the number of people on government assistance, the number of people in our prisons, all rising steadily, the real unemployment picture is quite different than what we are generally being told. Once in a while a major media source will talk about the real numbers, but it usually only once a year for each media outlet. MERRIL LYNCH covered the real numbers on February 9th.

MSN actually covered John Williams from SHadowStats back in 2006...
The numbers behind the lies - MSN Money

A GOOD ARTICLE:

From December 2007, when the recession began, to May of this year, 6.0 million U.S. workers lost their jobs.

Some groups of workers are already facing official unemployment rates in the double digits. As of May, unemployment rates for black, Hispanic, and teenage workers were already 14.9%, 12.7% and 22.7%, respectively. Workers without a high-school diploma confronted a 15.5% unemployment rate, while the unemployment rate for workers with just a high-school degree was 10.0%. Nearly one in five (19.2%) construction workers were unemployed. In Michigan, the hardest hit state, unemployment was at 12.9% in April. Unemployment rates in seven other states were at double-digit levels as well.

Why is the real unemployment rate so much higher than the official, or U-3, rate? First, forced part-time work has reached its highest level ever, going all the way back to 1956 and including the 1982 recession. In May 2009, 8.8 million workers were forced to work part time for economic reasons. Forced part-timers are concentrated in retail, food services, and construction; about a quarter of them are young workers between 16 and 24. The number of discouraged workers is high today as well. In May, the BLS counted 2.2 million “marginally attached” workers. That matches the highest number since 1994, when the agency introduced this measure.

The Real Unemployment Rate Hits a 68-Year High | Dollars & Sense

Then they were, indeed, lost at least partly because the poor violated the contract. So how is it invalid to blame them for that?Then racist beliefs are true? Oh yes, its the lender's fault they took the mortgage with no intention of paying. No, that's not what they're being blamed for. They are being blamed for the dishonest means they used to try and rise above it.

no offense but of you have not clued in already that Obama manages to place him self on both sides of just about EVERY issue, well what can I say...

he bashs bush, oh hey the stimulus will save jobs, the numbers are indeed bad we are in the pit, hey consumer confidence went up a notch I am confident, don't expect a quick turn around, housing has bounded back oh wait no it didn’t, hey we need to add 450 billion more for a omnibus budget bill that HE and dems purposely didn't pass under bush because he would have vetoed it if it was that large, hey we need to get to basics Paygo, hey we need to forgo Paygo for AMT relief, I will not hold military tribunals, well we have made some changes ( cosmetic) so we are holding tribunals….we cannot hold people forever in limbo, we need to hold them indefinitely, I am dead set against amnesty for telcoms and wire tapping…I had to vote for wire tapping amnesty, we don’t do rendition….we still do because we need Bagram and Egypt to do our dirty work…need I go on?

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

i wasnt talking about "them people" i was talking about his words his own statements, and in turn i was talking about you, will you ever criticize this man or due to his cool factor he is able to say things and not be held accountable for them

simple question, you dodged it and ran with the talking points