Your point is a good one. With resperct to national security, one of things I think happens to any president who takes office is that when he gets in, there are things going on that he didn't know about, and presidents tend to change their tune a bit: Obama did this when he started getting daily briefings - did you notice that as well? The "liberals" in this country were never and still are not very impressed with him, which of course throws the liberal love thing right out the window along woth the liberal media nonsense.

We don't need poeple in the Middle East to do our dirty work. I think that's a red herring. The people in the middle east need to get up off their asses and start atking part in this clean-up: Obama only has four years, if they don't start doing some productive changing in their "Wild West", it's only a matter of time before the feudalists insideously regain control.

And Bush should be bashed - are you kidding? Anybody that that idiot worked with to mess this up: even more than it was, should be drageed through mud for the next 50 years.

As I see this, the president has three things he wants: a more acceptable foreign policy. A working solution to this economy (which isn't going to happen until his first term is about up, I don't care what anybody says) and a health care bill that is supposed to get that ball rolling - at least.

I don't care much for this indecisiveness myself. I think allot of what he does is just use throw-away lines because his plans have to be developed first, and then of course they must jump through hoops to get everybody along.

Then -- there are all the other things he's had to do lately - just because the world is a little crazier now than it was when he was seeking the office.

I think perhaps he coddles criticism a bit too much right now: the press and the nere-do-wells are very distracting. That of course sounds like I just contradicted myself, however everything needs to be considered.

If Obama really screws it up, you won't be able to keep me quiet about it. Yet I will give him his due. I did the same thing with GW, up - until - Iraq. Then he let go of the piggy: very bad move.


Now I have to go deal this this guy:
We all know what he said. Unfortunately, all office holders are faced with having to try and please everyone at the same time as much as possible.

I criticize Obama more than you might think. I'm also open minded and I consider all things. Sometimes outright criticism isn't the best thing to engage in. On your side of things, criticism is all you guys do: therefore your opinions are skewed by your prejudices. Therefore I rarely take seriously anything that you in the rightwing say.

I can very well see the wall that the president has run into. I don't think his indecisive manner is a good thing at all; no matter why I think he may be appearing that way.

Everyting has an ebb and flow; so will his administration. I think that the reality is though, there is far too much going on for criticisms from your bent to have any meaning. ( I say that just as result of the unwarrented and combative desciption you give of me toward the president).

He hasn't done one thing for Unions yet.... There's other stuff going on at the moment. We'll get there.

Ya'see, your bent is wholly aimed at pointing out every -- little --thing and that is entirely unproductive: I've not heard one alternate soultion come out of any rightwing mouth, or their fingers upon the keyboard, since he got into office. Nothing. No crytical analysis. Nothing from the historical perspective (that usually tells you why things as are as they are at any given time). And as I listen to the pundets, on either side, the ones who are supposed to be able to read these things, even they don't know what to really say. They say nothing concrete. But they do criticize.

So, if I'm not critical in the way you think I should be; as my late farther used to say, "that's tough".

I have to ask. What has Obama ever done to make you believe that anything he does will improve the economy? Can you even say what his economic plan is? I dont claim to be an expert, but spend money, run off businesses, and blame Bush do not seem like solid ideas to get our countries economy fixed. You critisize people for critisizing Obama without giving valid arguements for it other than bashing him. but all i hear from Obama supporters is "wait and see" "he is changing america" While you are asking "the other side" for something concrete, where is your concrete statements showing that anything he is doing is making this country any better. Bush left our country in a bit of a mess. But when Bush left office 2 million people had jobs who are now unemployed. Obama is doing nothing to benefit this country or its economy. You ask for something concrete to support that statement? Look at the condition of our country since he took office. That is concrete.

Naturally ..

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Well, you're new, (and welcome) but I'm not going to repeat everything I've said about Obama and Bush. If you shop the threads, you'll find my opinions.

The two million people who had jobs before Obama took office, were going to lose them anyway. (That was etched in economic stone).
I never blamed Bush for the dot.com crash. It was a flash in the pan, just like the the Gold Rush of '49.

It is unreasonable to think that Obama coming into office in Jan of this year had anything to do with this economy. The Titanic was going down. Obama is charged with building a new ship --- it'll be years before that ship floats. Whether it makes it or not depends wholly on what we do right now.

My criticism of the right stands up very well: they have no critical analysis, no thoughtful engaging ideas that make better sense - they offer nothing, and I'll lay odds that a good percentage of them don't even vote.

When they start offering thoughtful alternatives, I'll start listening.

He didn't ask you for your opinion Jet, he asked you to tell him what Obama's economic plan actually is. His question was legitimate and is something none of the Obamabots have been able to answer. I haven't heard any critical analysis or thoughtful engaging ideas that make any sense from Obama...he offers nothing but record deficits and excuses. So perhaps you could enlighten us with the facts and critical analysis of his plan.

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"If you think about it, UPS and FedEx are doing just fine," he said. "It's the post office that's always having problems." Barack Obama on government run healthcare. 08/11/2009

American by birth.
Conservative by the grace of God.

Still sore about the war of northern aggression.

doctor who summed it up pretty well. You cannot ask obama critics to critisize specifics when none exists. Obama seems to me like a man who is in way over his head running around stating he can fix all of these problems but has shown or proposed absolutely no solution to these problems. Obama seems to think that the american public should just sit back, collect welfare, and blindly trust him to turn this country around. And sadly way too many americans are doing just that. And I do not buy into the idea that all of the jobs were going to be lost no matter what Obama did. Obama needs to accept responsibilty for what happens while he is in office. There were projections of unemployment rising some this year from last year but not at this rate. Obama, his beliefs and his policies are forcing some business owners to make choices now before these ideas are implemented. Obama has shown to be very anti big business and he wants to take money from them to compensate for his spending. The problem with that is that these business are going to relocate to ensure thier profit margins. When businesses relocate jobs are lost.

I should say first badger, that when you respond to a post, if you click the Quote button at the bottom right hand corner, the post you are replying to will show up. Like this. If you use the bracketed quote codes as you see them you can split up a post for easier answering.

Now,

The White House - Press Office - Remarks by the President to small business owners community lenders and members of Congress

Lists seven points about the economy that Obama has answered. Here’s one:


Those Credit lines haven’t loosened up enough yet do to consumer confidence.


In this article: US banks repay $68bn TARP bail-out cash - Telegraph The results of the TARP program are beginning to pay off, and Obama has not interfered with it - at all. In fact his recovery plan is designed on the same New Deal model that was invented and used by FDR (In 1933 FDR referred to it as The National Recovery Act: NRA and it took some time for the projects to be designed, assigned, hired out and completed). Moreover, it was just announced that Goldman Sachs reports $2 billion in profits. Please do not forget that GW Bush went kicking and screaming against this, but in the end signed because his own Treasury Secretary said it was an absolute necessity to avoid further trauma. (This was a Democratic idea, advocated by Obama to the effect that he asked for a second financial infusion into the banking industry).
Bush to Ask for TARP; Obama to 'Rebrand' It - ABC News

In other words, this was right up Obama’s alley from the start.

The president’s recovery plan goes into great detail here:
Agency Recovery Plan | Recovery.gov

After studying it, ask yourself how long this might take to get going? Some smaller projects are already at work and others will be on the way.

As I have said before, the criticisms of Obama’s progress are just premature and ill conceived. I’ll say again, when we watch the pundits, from the time Obama took office these (knowledgeable) folks have not been able to direct any concrete criticisms. This thing is so big they really don’t know how to handle it and all of their thinking is based on conjecture. At the very least, the president is acting to first: initiate damage control, and then find effective means of defense against further damage: that’s his job. The only real criticism has been that it’s not enough. Like Evil Knevil once said: “a motorcycle is only going to fly so far”. To that I would add that the path of natural disasters can never be accurately depicted.

Your comment about welfare is fallacious and I’m not going to entertain that flawed thinking.


The rate of the catastrophe was etched in stone as well do to the amount of damage that an unregulated market has done in thirty years – the job loss rate is going to higher yet – that has nothing to do with Obama. This thing is just touching down… (A guest author and financial wizard on Thom Hartman’s radio show predicted that by July we were going to go straight down again. I made mention of that on another thread here last month: and here we go). Obama is following the procedures outlined by requirements put upon his office: he is in over his head: anybody who took office after Bush would be in over their heads as well.

Americans are doing everything we can do: fighting quicksand means you sink faster. Remaining calm ensures higher chances of survival.

Okay. So he has a plan to spend money. So where is the analysis from Obama fans of trillion dollar plus deficits per year for the foreseeable future? I've seen them and they don't look pretty. Only raising taxes will reduce them. We know they won't reduce spending. So we are faced with raising taxes, which will stiffel any potential recovery (see Japan) or keeping the deficits which even Obama admitted are unsustainable. Business isn't stupid. (Okay, for the most part they are not ) They plan for the future. They see things getting worse and Obama's plan doing nothing to stem that tide and possibly the cause of things getting worse. They must make the choices today that will allow them to survive when the shit really hits the fan. That means cutting jobs and expenses today (economic drivers) so they have enough to make it through. So what are we going to wait and see? What level of damage (bad to really bad) these policies will have on our economy?

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"If you think about it, UPS and FedEx are doing just fine," he said. "It's the post office that's always having problems." Barack Obama on government run healthcare. 08/11/2009

American by birth.
Conservative by the grace of God.

Still sore about the war of northern aggression.

businesses are actually looking forward to healthcare reform because they are tired of their premiums rising every year and forcing them to lay off workers.

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That might be true but it's not healthcare specifically that is the problem with Obama's plan. But I also haven't seen anything concrete that says how much the plan will save if anything at all. They talk about the cost, they say, nebulously, how much it will save but I haven't seen anything that says, here's what everyone (all healthcare plans, medicare, medicaid, uninsured, etc) spend today and here's what everyone will spend with our plan.

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"If you think about it, UPS and FedEx are doing just fine," he said. "It's the post office that's always having problems." Barack Obama on government run healthcare. 08/11/2009

American by birth.
Conservative by the grace of God.

Still sore about the war of northern aggression.

You are obsolving Obama of any responsibility. I have been to recovery.gov. There is no substantial information on that site that is going to help the job market in this country. He is going to try to increase funding to help get people trained. Trained to go where? There are no companies to take that training too. And nothing is ever etched in stone. Obama was elected on change (actually i believe he was elected primarily on race, but for the 17 people who voted for him for another reason i think they voted because he promised change). Obama had ran a campaign based on changing the economy, healthcare reform, getting the US out of Iraq. He was going to create millions of new jobs. Where are these jobs? I know your going to say to give him more time, but his beliefs are designed to decimate our economy. What this country needs is for more businesses and employers to want to come to this country. More businesses = more employers = more jobs. And what factor do you think is most important to these business owners? (profits) If by doing business in the US, the govt is not only going to take a huge chunk from you businesses profits, then when you get home and start counting the little bit of money the govt left you with, they take a chunk of that because you made so much. Think about that from a purely business point of view. Why start a businsess in the US or bring your company here knowing that you will be raped with taxes??? Obama should be working to find ways to make companies want to be in the US.

probably because its not that simple. Only a fascist government, that controls everything, could tell us that.

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Except, of course, that his administration promised an IMMEDIATE rebound with jobless claims [among other things], and that unemployment rates would not top 8.5 or 8.8% with passing of the stimulus package.

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they promised immediate action, not results, and made no absolute guarantees regarding the unemployment rate.

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Personally? I don't think that businesses should be liable for healthcare insurance any more than they're liable for automobile insurance to insure that we are covered through our commute. I'd just as soon see people put that money in their pockets. I don't know exactly how this situation arose. If was through union negotiations and strikes, well, that's the power of collective bargaining for you. The health care market however has shown no desire to be fair, and now the chickens have come home to roost. But if this insurance thing can be brought down to a reasonable cost, I'd just asoon see unions bargain for another sort of benefit. In other words, health insurance n this country should be given that is easily afforded by anybody.