Holy Hell...470,000 job loss in June, national 9.5% - Page 15 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

jotathought · #**211** (**permalink**) 07-15-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by htperr6565

they promised immediate action, not results, and made no absolute guarantees regarding the unemployment rate.

Bullshit. They promised immediate results -- hundreds of thousands of new jobs by the end of the summer, lower unemployment rates, blah .. blah . blah ..

htperr6565 · #**212** (**permalink**) 07-15-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotathought

Bullshit. They promised immediate results -- hundreds of thousands of new jobs by the end of the summer, lower unemployment rates, blah .. blah . blah ..

bla, bla, bla, quotes?

jotathought · #**213** (**permalink**) 07-15-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by htperr6565

bla, bla, bla, quotes?

I've already provided a couple news articles in this very thread that you conveniently ignored .. The stimulus package was passed as a job projects package.

Geez .. even Obama recently promised to create 600,000 jobs by end of summer.

Quote:

Obama repackages stimulus plans with old promises

Obama admitted his own dissatisfaction with the progress but said his administration would ramp up stimulus spending in the coming months. The White House acknowledged it has spent only $44 billion, or 5 percent, of the $787 billion stimulus, but that total has always been expected to rise sharply this summer.

"Now we're in a position to really accelerate," Obama said.

He also repeated an earlier promise to create or save 600,000 jobs by the end of the summer.

...

By now, according to earlier White House economic models, the nation's unemployment rate should be on the decline. The forecasts used to drum up support for the plan projected today's unemployment would be about 8 percent. Instead, it sits at 9.4 percent, the highest in more than 25 years.

It's okay .. Obama's forecasts were wrong. Stop being a sheeple.

Doctor Who · #**214** (**permalink**) 07-15-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by htperr6565

probably because its not that simple. Only a fascist government, that controls everything, could tell us that.

I don't agree with that. The govt keeps a pretty good eye on the economy with various stats and how much is spent on healthcare and how much people pay into the system has got be be out there. If it isn't, how can they say it is bankrupting us if we don't know how much we are spending? So how are we going to save the money that all the pro govt healthcare people say we are? Where do they get their figures? The problem is, they don't know if it is going to save anything and will probably cost more as every govt program has.

jet57 · #**215** (**permalink**) 07-15-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by badger

You are obsolving Obama of any responsibility. I have been to recovery.gov. There is no substantial information on that site that is going to help the job market in this country. He is going to try to increase funding to help get people trained. Trained to go where? There are no companies to take that training too. And nothing is ever etched in stone. Obama was elected on change (actually i believe he was elected primarily on race, but for the 17 people who voted for him for another reason i think they voted because he promised change). Obama had ran a campaign based on changing the economy, healthcare reform, getting the US out of Iraq. He was going to create millions of new jobs. Where are these jobs? I know your going to say to give him more time, but his beliefs are designed to decimate our economy. What this country needs is for more businesses and employers to want to come to this country. More businesses = more employers = more jobs. And what factor do you think is most important to these business owners? (profits) If by doing business in the US, the govt is not only going to take a huge chunk from you businesses profits, then when you get home and start counting the little bit of money the govt left you with, they take a chunk of that because you made so much. Think about that from a purely business point of view. Why start a businsess in the US or bring your company here knowing that you will be raped with taxes??? Obama should be working to find ways to make companies want to be in the US.

Quote:

You are obsolving Obama of any responsibility. I have been to recovery.gov. There is no substantial information on that site that is going to help the job market in this country.

Yes, I am absolving the president of any responsibility for this disaster: he didn’t cause it, he inherited it. His job, is not the job market, it is creating and where ever possible implementing plans to assist this country in it’s own recovery. His plans lay out very clearly how he hopes to see his part of it through.

Quote:

He is going to try to increase funding to help get people trained. Trained to go where? There are no companies to take that training too.

The president is smart enough to know, that now is the time, when nothing else is going on, to get people involved with educating themselves, so that when things begin to straighten out and his plans really get going, those seeking jobs in the trades will be prepared.

Quote:

And nothing is ever etched in stone.

That is human arrogance talking again. From a universal perspective, what’s happened is just like any force of nature, and the forces of nature are etched in stone. I took it for granted that you would see that.

Quote:

Obama was elected on change (actually i believe he was elected primarily on race, but for the 17 people who voted for him for another reason i think they voted because he promised change).

You have just disqualified yourself from being taken seriously with respect to anything the president does or does not do, says, or does not say.

Quote:

Obama had ran a campaign based on changing the economy, healthcare reform, getting the US out of Iraq. He was going to create millions of new jobs. Where are these jobs? I know your going to say to give him more time, but his beliefs are designed to decimate our economy. What this country needs is for more businesses and employers to want to come to this country. More businesses = more employers = more jobs. And what factor do you think is most important to these business owners? (profits) If by doing business in the US, the govt is not only going to take a huge chunk from you businesses profits, then when you get home and start counting the little bit of money the govt left you with, they take a chunk of that because you made so much. Think about that from a purely business point of view. Why start a businsess in the US or bring your company here knowing that you will be raped with taxes??? Obama should be working to find ways to make companies want to be in the US.

Your lack of knowledge of the issues and of our history blaze through all of the rest of your statements, and I'm not going to take the time to educate you chapter and verse. You offer – nothing – other than baseless patrician argument.

When you post a reasonably thought out, plausable argument against my position, that isn't full of poorly drawn rheotical pathos, then I'll be happy to engage you further on the subject.

badger · #**216** (**permalink**) 07-15-2009

Quote:

Yes, I am absolving the president of any responsibility for this disaster

you state that you absolve the president of responsibility and then state that i am disqualified from being taken seriously. LOL. Are you one of those people who think that Obama can do no wrong. No matter how bad things get on his watch it was bush's fault right? By that logic everything that went wrong during bush's tenure was Clintons fault. It is stupid and blind logic.

Quote:

what’s happened is just like any force of nature, and the forces of nature are etched in stone.

Human behavior grossely affects all forces of nature. Forces of nature are not even etched in stone.

Before stating that I need to have more thought out ideas, how about you post one. Please post something that shows why you are in support of Obama. Something other than blind faith.

badger · #**217** (**permalink**) 07-15-2009

Quote:

His job, is not the job market, it is creating and where ever possible implementing plans to assist this country in it’s own recovery. His plans lay out very clearly how he hopes to see his part of it through.

His job does not cover the job market? The job market that drives our economy? You might have well have said that the economy is not his responsibility. So what is his job then??? The economy of this country should be his primary concern. And please copy and paste something off of that site that states CLEARLY how he is going to do anything to better the economy of this country.

htperr6565 · #**218** (**permalink**) 07-15-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctor Who

I don't agree with that. The govt keeps a pretty good eye on the economy with various stats and how much is spent on healthcare and how much people pay into the system has got be be out there. If it isn't, how can they say it is bankrupting us if we don't know how much we are spending? So how are we going to save the money that all the pro govt healthcare people say we are? Where do they get their figures? The problem is, they don't know if it is going to save anything and will probably cost more as every govt program has.

The government is probably capable of telling us everything about the big picture. However, when it comes to how specific policies will affect very precise population groups and certain individuals, that is more up to conjecture.

Government is not always empowered with all of the knowledge it may want, and that we may ask of it. That does not change the possibility that some issues are worth addressing now rather than later, when certain aspects of those issues are readily discernible.

htperr6565 · #**219** (**permalink**) 07-15-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotathought

I've already provided a couple news articles in this very thread that you conveniently ignored .. The stimulus package was passed as a job projects package.

Geez .. even Obama recently promised to create 600,000 jobs by end of summer.

It's okay .. Obama's forecasts were wrong. Stop being a sheeple.

Ummm, sheeple mistake estimates and conjectures with promises. Sheeple dig through whitehouse documents and present internal correspondence as 'promises made to the people.'

Notice how you go from asserting that the obama admin made promises, to telling be to stop being a sheeple because some of their estimates were wrong.

never did obama or anyone promise x amount of jobs in x amount of time, or that x would be the unemployment rate at x date. They presented estimates that related to some of these factors, and have been diligent when admitting some of the estimates may have been off base.

The stimulus was designed to save or create jobs. there will never be a way evalute how it would have compared to no action, and thus there will not be a way to authoritatively say that the stimulus did not at least save jobs.

htperr6565 · #**220** (**permalink**) 07-15-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by badger

you state that you absolve the president of responsibility and then state that i am disqualified from being taken seriously. LOL. Are you one of those people who think that Obama can do no wrong. No matter how bad things get on his watch it was bush's fault right? By that logic everything that went wrong during bush's tenure was Clintons fault. It is stupid and blind logic.

Ummm, things were getting better as clinton left office. (economically)

can that be said of bush?

Talk about stupid logic.

Imperator · #**221** (**permalink**) 07-15-2009

here ya go stimulus in action. Aside from my job ( which is a 'career' job) there have been 50 others created we know of, well some are part time ....

snip-

UnionLeader.com - New Hampshire news, business and sports - Stimulus: Millions in grants, tons of scrutiny - Monday, Jul. 13, 2009

$413.6 million. 34 Full time jobs created. 16 part-time jobs created.

And-

after a tough budget year, both Democrats and Republicans are wary of creating jobs that have to be funded long into the future. Members of both parties said they expect the jobs to end when the funding ends in 27 months.

badger · #**222** (**permalink**) 07-15-2009

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by badger
you state that you absolve the president of responsibility and then state that i am disqualified from being taken seriously. LOL. Are you one of those people who think that Obama can do no wrong. No matter how bad things get on his watch it was bush's fault right? By that logic everything that went wrong during bush's tenure was Clintons fault. It is stupid and blind logic.

Ummm, things were getting better as clinton left office. (economically)

can that be said of bush?

Talk about stupid logic.

yes it is stupid logic. that was my point.

jet57 · #**223** (**permalink**) 07-15-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by badger

you state that you absolve the president of responsibility and then state that i am disqualified from being taken seriously. LOL. Are you one of those people who think that Obama can do no wrong. No matter how bad things get on his watch it was bush's fault right? By that logic everything that went wrong during bush's tenure was Clintons fault. It is stupid and blind logic.

Human behavior grossely affects all forces of nature. Forces of nature are not even etched in stone.

Before stating that I need to have more thought out ideas, how about you post one. Please post something that shows why you are in support of Obama. Something other than blind faith.

Quote:

Originally Posted by badger

His job does not cover the job market? The job market that drives our economy? You might have well have said that the economy is not his responsibility. So what is his job then??? The economy of this country should be his primary concern. And please copy and paste something off of that site that states CLEARLY how he is going to do anything to better the economy of this country.

I rest my case.

badger · #**224** (**permalink**) 07-15-2009

you havent made a case.

zechariah1 · #**225** (**permalink**) 07-15-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotathought

I've already provided a couple news articles in this very thread that you conveniently ignored .. The stimulus package was passed as a job projects package.

Geez .. even Obama recently promised to create 600,000 jobs by end of summer.

It's okay .. Obama's forecasts were wrong. Stop being a sheeple.

True. The stimulus package seems to be DOA.

Here is a link which graphs present conditions and projections.

Federal Debt, Budget and Deficit (Obama Edition)

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