Powell Concerned about Obama's Agenda - Page 2 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

tsquare · #16 (**permalink**) 07-05-2009

There was a time I CARED what Powell said and thought.

No more...

daddio · #17 (**permalink**) 07-05-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSGracchus

Pay attention to what Powell is saying. "I am concerned that we may be trying to do more than we can handle." That, my friends is -- wait for it -- CONSERVATISM! The real meaning of the word, not a synonym for right-wing wacko craziness. A conservative's role in the political dialogue is to look at the changes advocated by liberals and say, "Wait a minute. Is this really a good idea? Is it a good idea NOW, even if it might be some day? Can we afford it? Will it do more harm than good?"

I happen to think Powell is wrong, and that the things Obama is trying to do are things we desperately must do, that have been put off far too long. The time for a gradual approach was several decades ago, and yes, that would have been better. But it's too late now. Nothing to do but go for it and hope for the best.

But nonetheless, we need people saying what Powell is saying. We need voices of caution. We need conservatives. That's the role the Republican Party ought to be taking on right now: the loyal opposition. Loyal, in that they accept the values which the Obama administration is putting forth, and wish to serve for the good of America. Opposition, because they oppose the way he's trying to do it, and want a slower, more cautious approach. Or, just to keep him honest ('cause I sure don't trust him, or any politician, unopposed).

The word "conservative" has lost its meaning by being hijacked by fundamentalist theocrats, greed-is-good plutocrats, and rule-the-world neo-fascists. The GOP is no longer a "conservative" party, and those who say it ought to be usually mean one or more of the three travesties named above, not genuine conservatism. But real conservatives are needed. And Colin Powell is one of them.

The general approves of the massive expansion of government Prezbo calles for but only questions the timeline. This is NOT conservatism, at best its blue dog dem. Were he conservative at all he would be foursquare against the socialist programs Prezbo is presssing.

Rakkasan · #18 (**permalink**) 07-05-2009

weak interview wasnt that controversial, as usual he kind of stayed on the fence IMO on the issues and retread even off his own words to become more moderate

TSGracchus · #19 (**permalink**) 07-05-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by daddio

The general approves of the massive expansion of government Prezbo calles for but only questions the timeline. This is NOT conservatism

Yes it is. You're confused here because you associate the word with a fixed set of policy recommendations instead of the attitude towards progress and change that really defines it.

Quote:

at best its blue dog dem.

Blue dog Democrats ARE conservative. So are so-called "moderate" Republicans. Those few that remain, anyway.

Like I said, the Republican "base" has lost touch with what the word "conservative" really means.

Commodore · #20 (**permalink**) 07-05-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSGracchus

Yes it is. You're confused here because you associate the word with a fixed set of policy recommendations instead of the attitude towards progress and change that really defines it.

How Orwellian of you. Did Obama quietly order the Newspeak agents out while everyone was enjoying the long weekend?

Marcus1124 · #21 (**permalink**) 07-05-2009

Quote:

TSGracchus
Blue dog Democrats ARE conservative. So are so-called "moderate" Republicans. Those few that remain, anyway.

Like I said, the Republican "base" has lost touch with what the word "conservative" really means.

My Grandfather had a very concise explanation of what "blue dogs" were. He used to say that "a liberal is someone who will spend any amount on anything, except for national defense; blue dogs will spend anything on national defense as well"

daddio · #22 (**permalink**) 07-06-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commodore

How Orwellian of you. Did Obama quietly order the Newspeak agents out while everyone was enjoying the long weekend?

nah, he actually believes this stuff.

Eagle88 · #23 (**permalink**) 07-06-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donkey_Left

Powell has always struck me as a solid dude. I think the previous administration did him an ultimate disservice. He is the sort of nuanced conservative that the Republicans should be flocking to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHighForester

nuanced conservative = a person who has a decent respect for the rights of other human beings

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSGracchus

Pay attention to what Powell is saying. "I am concerned that we may be trying to do more than we can handle." That, my friends is -- wait for it -- CONSERVATISM! The real meaning of the word, not a synonym for right-wing wacko craziness. A conservative's role in the political dialogue is to look at the changes advocated by liberals and say, "Wait a minute. Is this really a good idea? Is it a good idea NOW, even if it might be some day? Can we afford it? Will it do more harm than good?"

I happen to think Powell is wrong, and that the things Obama is trying to do are things we desperately must do, that have been put off far too long. The time for a gradual approach was several decades ago, and yes, that would have been better. But it's too late now. Nothing to do but go for it and hope for the best.

But nonetheless, we need people saying what Powell is saying. We need voices of caution. We need conservatives. That's the role the Republican Party ought to be taking on right now: the loyal opposition. Loyal, in that they accept the values which the Obama administration is putting forth, and wish to serve for the good of America. Opposition, because they oppose the way he's trying to do it, and want a slower, more cautious approach. Or, just to keep him honest ('cause I sure don't trust him, or any politician, unopposed).

The word "conservative" has lost its meaning by being hijacked by fundamentalist theocrats, greed-is-good plutocrats, and rule-the-world neo-fascists. The GOP is no longer a "conservative" party, and those who say it ought to be usually mean one or more of the three travesties named above, not genuine conservatism. But real conservatives are needed. And Colin Powell is one of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSGracchus

Yes it is. You're confused here because you associate the word with a fixed set of policy recommendations instead of the attitude towards progress and change that really defines it.

I just love it when liberals try to tell conservatives what conservatism is and who the "true" conservatives really are. If I tried to do that to liberals, they'd laugh me out of town.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSGracchus

Blue dog Democrats ARE conservative. So are so-called "moderate" Republicans. Those few that remain, anyway.

Like I said, the Republican "base" has lost touch with what the word "conservative" really means.

Blue dog Democrats are moderates and so are moderate Republicans.

Please don't lecture me on what it means to be a conservative. The truth is that many liberals just want two parties that basically stand for the same thing so they can cultivate the image that there is a choice while in reality there isn't. The scary thing is that all too many Republicans are buying into their arguments and becoming liberal-lite.

TSGracchus · #24 (**permalink**) 07-06-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle88

I just love it when liberals try to tell conservatives what conservatism is

I'm not telling "conservatives" anything. There are few, if any, conservatives on this forum. You are most certainly not one of them.

jviehe · #25 (**permalink**) 07-06-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rakkasan

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - State of the Union: Powell ‘concerned’ about Obama’s agenda - Blogs from CNN.com

By the exerpts this will be a interesting interview on Sunday

Should have thought of that before he helped get him elected. Sounds like hes just another dumb voter.

Speakeasy · #26 (**permalink**) 07-06-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

Should have thought of that before he helped get him elected. Sounds like hes just another dumb voter.

Having disagreements from time to time with the person you voted for doesn't make one a 'dumb voter'. In fact, I'd say it makes them a much smarter voter than those who give the person they voted for a thumbs up in every last thing they did.

Eagle88 · #27 (**permalink**) 07-06-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSGracchus

I'm not telling "conservatives" anything. There are few, if any, conservatives on this forum. You are most certainly not one of them.

You're actually correct in one thing about this statement. According to the original definitions of "liberal" and "conservative" I am not a conservative, I am actually a liberal. So are all who are defined today as "conservatives". Basically put, our stances are the stances of the classical liberal. However, in today's world, based upon the current definition of the words "liberal" and "conservative", I am a conservative.

P.S. This is also why I have sometimes called myself a classical liberal or a Jeffersonian Democrat (although I am currently registered Republican but given the direction of that party I may not be that way for long).

jviehe · #28 (**permalink**) 07-06-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speakeasy

Having disagreements from time to time with the person you voted for doesn't make one a 'dumb voter'. In fact, I'd say it makes them a much smarter voter than those who give the person they voted for a thumbs up in every last thing they did.

What makes him a dumb voter is he supported someone who he did not know. Now he, like other Obama supporters, are finally seeing past the image.

Doctor Who · #29 (**permalink**) 07-06-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

What makes him a dumb voter is he supported someone who he did not know. Now he, like other Obama supporters, are finally seeing past the image.

I tend to agree with jviehe here Speakeasy. When you think about it, it should have been no surprise to anyone that the most liberal member of the Senate would be doing what Obama is doing. He can't to let the debate go on or he will lose the momentum.

Speakeasy · #30 (**permalink**) 07-06-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

What makes him a dumb voter is he supported someone who he did not know. Now he, like other Obama supporters, are finally seeing past the image.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctor Who

I tend to agree with jviehe here Speakeasy. When you think about it, it should have been no surprise to anyone that the most liberal member of the Senate would be doing what Obama is doing. He can't to let the debate go on or he will lose the momentum.

Perhaps I just misinterpreted the post. I thought you were saying that if someone helps someone get elected, then disagrees with them on something, they're a dumb voter. And I don't think it's too much of a stretch to interpret it that way.

In this specific case, yes, Powell should have expected the Obama administration to spend like crazy due to the large D next to his name. However, I still don't see how he's now a dumb voter. I think it would be a pretty safe bet that Powell voted for Obama for a number of reasons, such as foreign policy, social policy, not wanting to endorse the current direction of the Republican party, etc.

I also don't see any evidence from Powell that he didn't expect this sort of thing from Obama when casting his vote. Nowhere does it seem like this has caught Powell off guard or like he feels that Obama has cheated or lied to him. Powell might have figured this exact thing would happen way back in November, but he's speaking about it now because his predictions are becoming a reality.

All we know is he's concerned about this one particular aspect of Obama's presidency, not that he was bamboozled and completely regrets his vote.

Basically, jviehe's post came off as a thinly veiled swipe at the common idea that people who voted for Obama don't know anything. Like I said, I may have taken it completely wrong.

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