no, assholes aren't a specially protected group ,even in San Francisco.

(it would of course be a crime but I can't pass up a good joke)

Special interest groups who profit from the legislation and give some of those profits back to the legislator's election coffers

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The Patient Sufferance - Politics for People Tired of Politics

A public option mandated by the election of President Obama does not seem like such a quagmire to me.

It's just an option that millions of people want.

That it puts the right's panties in such a twist is just laughable since their alternative is about the most piss-poor attempt at healthcare reform I've ever had the agony to read.

John Boehner gets no points from me for putting his name on the GOP alternative, which is not really an alternative to anything, just more expensive status quo.

Like many other modern legilative milestones in America, the GOP finds itself proudly on the wrong side of history. Ironic, since they used to be the party that advocated competition in the marketplace, except for the kind of competition that might threaten unlimited profits for the big insurers while giving much needed coverage to almost every American citizen that does not have coverage now.

The GOP is not putting their faith in "we the people". They don't believe that we the people through our representatives can address healthcare and change it, and that the useless middlemen that are the big insurers are somehow our friends and that eventually, one day, some day, healthcare costs will come down all by themselves. Their plan has everything to do with "faith", while the Dem plan, at last, with the public option, offers American citizens the first chance at really taking charge of healthcare costs as well as managing their healthcare needs more closely between their healthcare providers and themselves, the way it ought to be, with no useless middleman stealing our wealth and holding us up.

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“The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel’ so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their ‘level of productivity in society,’ whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil."-Sarah Palin, not having a clue once again about what she is talking about.

Care to 'joke' about bombing another American city? The fact that you find it funny, is troubling. Do you find Oklahoma City funny?

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"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

-Thomas Jefferson

The insurance bill is unconstitutional because it fines people who choose not to buy insurance.

That's an illegal bill of attainder.

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... ..................
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Contrary to politician belief on both sides, elections are not mandates. People still get a voice.

Too bad "millions" is a tiny fraction of the 300M population.

I know, right? Pelosi's 2000 page opus was tough to get through.

Well, while I agree it's not great, it isn't te status quo and it is less expensive because it doesn' require a trillion dollar tax hike. Only liberals think spending $.4 trillion dollars on the back of the tax payers is cheaper.

Giving is the operative word there. We are going to spend $1.4 trillion to "give" coverage to a few million.

Pelosi's bill doesn't change anything except how much money we all will have left after the govt confiscates it.

Those "useless middlemen" crafted this bill with Pelosi and with the stroke of a pen, they will benefit by adding millions of new customers paid for by Uncle Sam.

Could you be specific as to how this new bill does what you say it does?

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"If you think about it, UPS and FedEx are doing just fine," he said. "It's the post office that's always having problems." Barack Obama on government run healthcare. 08/11/2009

American by birth.
Conservative by the grace of God.

Still sore about the war of northern aggression.

Thank you! That's what I'm saying.

To me it seems more like Pelosi and crew are not really doing this because they care about giving us a decent health care plan but rather because they benefit from it some how. Our elected officials are lining their pockets while they screw us over with a 1,990 page heath care fiasco.

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"Democracy passes into despotism." - Plato

Now your just making sense Jason and we don't need anyone making sense in this debate. American conservatives don't like to be told with facts that their precious ideology is wrong therefore they oppose anything the Democrats do on principle even if it means being on the wrong side of history.

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"Reagan proved deficits don't matter" - Vice President Dick Cheney (2002)

A vast majority (up to 70% depending on the month) of Americans want a public option. This is not a tiny fraction.


Its essentially the status quo with continuing the insurance monopoly, continuing dropping people for pre-existing conditions and continuing to accept 44,000 deaths per year due to millions of people being uninsured. Its appalling to even think they would put forth something so bad.

Contrary to Republican policy over the last decade Obama's bill will not add to the deficit. Some people will need to pay a small bit of higher taxes that will likely be offset by everyone having lower premiums. A small price to pay to end the barbaric system.


This is just fear mongering and not based on any kind of fact. In fact, the facts say just the opposite. You need to think beyond your ideology.

Then why are the insurance companies fighting it?

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"Reagan proved deficits don't matter" - Vice President Dick Cheney (2002)

Bull shit that the majority want universal health care. I think you liberals need to pull your heads out of LA. NY and Chicago asses and realize the country is bigger than your useless cities and the people who make things and take care of the country dont want this shit. You know the ones liberals. The ones fixing your toilet that you think your smarter that.

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if you cant take the heat then stop bugging me while I cook

In a perfect world they want it. The real number is that an overwhelming majority of people are against this bill. So why don't you go with that number? Oh that's right, liberals know better than everyone else.

The insurance monopoly? Do you have any idea what you are talking about Danny? You don't have to answer that. Health insurance companies are one of the most heavily regulated industries in America. Guess who tells them what they can charge and what they must offer? If you have any issues with the insurance industry look no further than the US govt to find the problem.

That is an outright lie Danny and you know it. Do you really trust people who lie for a living?

Small bit of higher taxes? Since there are zero provisions in this bill that will actually control costs (the part the insurance companies have very little control over) there will be higher premiums and higher taxes. Our system is not barbaric. Canada...that's barbaric. Making people wait to the point they die before they can even see a doctor.

The facts do not say the opposite and you should take your own advice.

Mandates that they cannot charge for higher risks. Kind of the main reason behind insurance in the first place and risk based pricing. It's not insurance if the loss is 100% certain. They know the administration wants a single payer system which puts them and milions of people out of a job not to mention the destruction of wealth. That's your wealth and mine Danny. Not just the CEOs.

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"If you think about it, UPS and FedEx are doing just fine," he said. "It's the post office that's always having problems." Barack Obama on government run healthcare. 08/11/2009

American by birth.
Conservative by the grace of God.

Still sore about the war of northern aggression.

only on political forums do liberals think the election of obama was a mandate for health care

in the real world everyone i have talked to only voted for him cause they didnt like mccain and they dont like this bill period

I see the dem leadership is back to saying "coverage for 46 million more Americans". This HAS to include illegal aliens as they are a 12-15 million part of that number. This hokey chart has them at 5 million which is fucking laughable, like the other 7-10 million have heath insurance????? Just as preposterous are the numbers of those who opt out because they want an new iphone and some dubs worse, make over 75K and don't buy it, or qualify but don't sign up for freebies.

Look at that last one.........we are going to pass a bill to give insurance to 10 million people who already qualify for free insurance but are too fucking dumb or lazy to sign up. Perfect!

How can any politician look at the facts on the uninsured and vote to cripple future generations with debt in the interest of trying to "fix" things??????

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Want government run healthcare? Join the military.

No it was an ass joke...san Fran...Folsom street fair all that fun stuff...get it now?

I find it scary that any American wants this passed.
For fucks sake, can anyone name anything that the government has run well and within cost control?
I sure as hell cant, they loose money on ever damn thing and it always cost us much much more than predicted.

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Anyone who thinks freedom comes cheap, please put the blindfold on and stand against the wall.

IT IS TIME for Americans to take back the country and start a new government.