Well, if the companies which I owe money at outrageous loan shark rates and montly double payments(versus when I first agreed to pay the debt) continues to be so irrati0onal... then they will wait will we all die in about another 20 years to collect that debt... and our lives will go off the grid in the meantime.

So far, so good.. in fact, kinda nice...

Whats impossible? I stated a fact that jobless numbers lag behind all other indicators. Are you choosing to dispute this and if so do you have a basis for the argument?

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"Reagan proved deficits don't matter" - Vice President Dick Cheney (2002)

....that may be for 20% of them and 20 years ago...not anymore, not in this bear market.....the big movers and shakers like pension funds etc. buy the S&P 500 index. Guys like Buffet etc. yea they gamer ion and but, hes lost over 6 billion dollars himself since last sept....the market will in the end reflect the activity good bad up down.....the dollar soon, will have to be propped up to take out of the deficit tail spin ( and pray on your hands and knees we don’t lose reserve currency status, I mean it dude) , when it does our exports will be far less glamorous, and that activity which probably represent 65% of all activity right now, will being to slow too…then what? Whom will manufactures be making durable goods for? Not us…we’ll be unemployed….

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

Your argument is one proposed by people that can't predict a bowel movement. Economists have track records worse then the local weatherman.

wtf? in 2 months?

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

i'll buy that.

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"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine

lol my bad obviously i meant 2011

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"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine

As it is right now... YAHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for unemployment damnit.

Maybe once democrats also feel the hurt, the job market will free up and i can get a job again?

What BS...
If you are NOT currently uneployted as a result from our current work downturn... OR are part of the supporters/employers who can offer me some hope for employemnt... then don't bother replying...........

Piling on is worthy of repirisal and false empoyment hopes by businesses is a warning to current and future employees... so please feel free to post if you have a reason to be hire ME!!!!!!

Ok, just kidding.... err, not really.

Give him time. It's a steep learning curve from ACORN to Oak tree.

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Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ---P. J. O'Rourke

EDIT to me.....

alright so let me be clear- using the bls stat.here- U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics you will wager that unemployment will be 9%? Do I have that right?

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

ahhhh, then ignore my last post........I thought so, no, I won't take that bet.

My orginal offer stands though, 9.5% by COB August

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

2 major structural problems:

1-the US doesn't produce anything anymore, we have off-shored most of our manufacturing, and now the Indians and Chinese are making major inroads into replacing even higher level job functions, like legal work

2-the public unions, including teachers and other municipal workers, have increased their pension, entitlements, salaries, etc., to completely unsustainable levels where taxes must persistently increase year after year - even in times of economic shrinkage.

This means government cannot ever reduce its size, and must perpetually raise taxes, even if the services provided continue to worsen (i.e., schools).

A perfect example of what the US is going to look like in a microcosm can be seen in the city of Detroit, where its manufacturing base has vanished, and the public unions refuse to acknowledge reality, that their jobs exist to provide services, not that the city government exists to provide them with make-work jobs.

The WSJ had a superb editorial on this situation today:

Shikha Dalmia: Dave Bing's Last-Second Shot - WSJ.com

Dave Bing's Last-Second Shot
Can the former Piston star save Detroit?
By SHIKHA DALMIA

On Tuesday, voters in Detroit trudged to the polls and re-elected 65-year-old Mayor Dave Bing, giving him five new city council members to accomplish a mission impossible: bring Michigan's biggest city back from near death. There's no clear prescription that will work, and Detroit's recalcitrant public-employee unions will resist the fiscal therapy that will necessarily be a part of any recovery.

Last year, Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick headed off to prison for using city funds to cover up an affair with a staffer. After a few months of an interim mayor, Mr. Bing stepped in to finish Kilpatrick's remaining time in office neither out of political ambition (he's announced he won't seek two terms) nor to get rich (he is donating his salary to the police department). The former Detroit Piston basketball legend who later made a fortune as an auto supplier genuinely wants to use his business acumen to save the city. But Detroit is much closer to the brink than many people acknowledge.

Detroit has been in trouble for decades. It has the highest taxes in Michigan, the highest murder rate in the country, and a dreadful public school system. Only 25% of high school students graduate each year. Its tens of thousands of abandoned homes offer safe haven to drug dealers and criminals. All of this has produced an exodus of businesses—there is no longer a single major department store in the city—and residents. Detroit's population is less than half of its peak of two million in the 1960s.

With the collapse of the auto industry over the past year and a half, things have gotten a lot worse. Unemployment is now touching Depression levels of around 30%—three times the national rate. Businesses that depend on the auto industry are shutting down and more residents are hitting the exits. This is accelerating the erosion of the city's tax base, producing a fiscal crisis that seems impossible to escape. The city's accumulated deficit is currently somewhere between $300 million and $400 million. No one knows for sure because the city has yet to submit its 2008 audit; its annual budget is about $3 billion.

Joe Harris, a former chief financial officer of Detroit, notes that when Mr. Bing took office this summer, the city had enough cash on hand to make payroll, pay vendors and meet other day-to-day needs for about 11 days. To make ends meet, Mr. Bing is planning to issue "tax anticipation" notes to lenders to raise $94 million against expected tax revenues. This money, along with the biannual property taxes that the city collected in August, might keep Detroit running through the end of the fiscal year next June.

But that won't address the underlying fiscal imbalances. For that problem, Mr. Bing wants to squeeze $5 million in savings every month by asking the city's roughly 13,000 workers to take a 10% pay cut, a 10% benefit cut, and a 10% staff cut. He also wants to privatize or outsource many city services and consolidate various departments. "Our people [city workers] need to understand that entitlement is gone," Mr. Bing told the Detroit News in August. "There are people who think we are job providers. We're service providers."

Mr. Bing is going to have a very hard time making the city's entrenched unions play ball. John Reihl, president of the American Federation of State, Council and Municipal Employees (AFSCME) Local 207, regards Mr. Bing's talk of cuts as a personal insult. "It is just a way to mess with the unions," he told the Detroit News in July. "It's not our role to give anymore concessions."

So far Mr. Bing has shown little indication that he'll stand up to the unions. For the third time on Friday, Mr. Bing backed off on his threat to lay off more workers if unions don't accept a wage cut. Yet a recent study by the Mackinac Center for Public Policy found that if state and local government employee benefit packages in Michigan were limited to what is typical for Midwestern private sector workers—including those in unions—taxpayers would save as much as $5.7 billion annually.

The fiscal mess puts Mr. Bing in a Catch-22. He can't cut the city's taxes because the short-term hit to cash flow would leave the city unable to pay its bills. But without tax reform the city can't lure businesses back.

Detroit may simply not be viable in its current form. Political and economic leaders need to rethink the notion that the city can regain its former status as a major American metropolis capable of luring large companies with tax breaks—which was Mr. Kilpatrick's failed strategy.

Detroit now more closely resembles a frontier town that needs not flashy stadiums and art institutes but basic services: police, firemen and good schools. Mr. Bing needs to confront the hard reality that the city needs to pare back its liabilities, identify infrastructure it can no longer afford to maintain, and (though this is anathema to Detroit's political class) perhaps auction off portions of its 140 square miles to neighboring counties, shrinking to a size that its diminished population base can support.

Short term, Detroit's best hope may be to go bankrupt. However, given Michigan law, which has never been tested because no city has ever filed for bankruptcy, it's unclear if even bankruptcy will fully release Detroit from the clutches of its unions and allow it to start over. The only thing certain is that fate is not kind to a city that allows unions to run amok.

Ms. Dalmia is a senior analyst at Reason Foundation and lives in metro Detroit.

Job numbers lag and jobs come last when you put the recovery on CREDIT.

We cant put the recovery on credit this time. That's just not going to happen because it was credit in the first place that got us into this economic mess.

Credit was abused.

The only other option is tax cuts or a taxpayer stimulus like the one Bush gave out but just larger... 20-40 grand per family/person.

People need to spend money to jump start this economy and this time they cant just use credit cards to do it. Lenders arent going to just liberally loan money this time. Its not going to happen.

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Sic Semper Tyrannis






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