Thread: Immigration Reform

Originally Posted by Donkey_Left

You aren't serious about a fence, right? Because they don't work.

That depends entirely on how well its built.

Originally Posted by Commodore

That depends entirely on how well its built.

Privatize Border security and build a fence. Once you eliminate the major problem of the guys in the government jobs making a killing off of the slave trade businesses they are involved in AZ, CA, NM and TX you solve much of the illegal immigration problem right there. The fence is there for two reasons: intimidation and it would stop the minor runs from crossing over.

I used to work the fence in my youth- healthier days before I became the Fat Libertarian I am today.

Originally Posted by Commodore

That depends entirely on how well its built.

Probably half the undocumented people here today came here legally.

How about the people who are waiting in line to immigrate legally? Do they get instant satisfaction, or is that just reserved for Mexicans?

Immigration reform won't accomplish anything. Jose is here illegally, he makes $10/hr cash roofing. His employer is escaping paying payroll taxes. Jose gets amnesty. The only thing that's going to change is Jose doesn't have to look over his shoulder, which he quit doing years ago when he realized no one is coming for him.

If you think Jose is going on the tax rolls, and his wife and kids won't be getting food stamps and other public assistance, and they will no longer sit in an ER to get treated for the flu, you're kidding yourselves. Jose won't be learning english either, Jose has no desire to become an "American". Jose is here for our money......period, That's his American dream.

Originally Posted by Doc Marten

Privatize Border security and build a fence. Once you eliminate the major problem of the guys in the government jobs making a killing off of the slave trade businesses they are involved in AZ, CA, NM and TX you solve much of the illegal immigration problem right there. The fence is there for two reasons: intimidation and it would stop the minor runs from crossing over.

I used to work the fence in my youth- healthier days before I became the Fat Libertarian I am today.

The only real way to stop it is to make employing them a felony offense. Add to that revocation of one's business license(s) if convicted. These people are here because Americans hire them, there's your trouble, there's your scumbags.

Originally Posted by Steve

Our immigration policy is fine.

The problem is when people connect illegal immigration to it.

They're two entirely different issues, and need to be addressed as such.

As for our immigration policies, I say we welcome in all who are willing to go through the proper, established channels for coming here legally. If they want to pick lettuce once they get here, cool. If they want to run their own company, that's cool, too.

But te illegal scumbag aliens need to be stopped, and they need to be stopped at the border, using whatever means necessary to stop them...

I don't see illegal aliens as scumbags any more than I see legal aliens as scumbags. All come here to improve their lives. They are all desparate to get out of the country of origin and come here with the hope of making their lives better. It doesn't really matter to me if the have a piece of paper saying they can live here or not. No one owns the world. Not even Americans.

Originally Posted by Redv

I don't see illegal aliens as scumbags any more than I see legal aliens as scumbags. All come here to improve their lives. They are all desparate to get out of the country of origin and come here with the hope of making their lives better. It doesn't really matter to me if the have a piece of paper saying they can live here or not. No one owns the world. Not even Americans.

So, do we have a right to decide who lives in our country? Can you move to any country you please without completing an immigration process?

Seems a bit simplistic to me. Good slogan - " No one owns the world. Not even Americans." - but a bit short on substance.

How about your house? Can I move in and take over your living room? I don't have a "piece of paper" that says I can live in your house, but does that really matter? Is "Nobody owns your house. Not even you." as exciting a slogan?

Matt

Originally Posted by Donkey_Left

You aren't serious about a fence, right? Because they don't work.

Agreed. A fence simply isn't feesable.

I fully support a reasonable (to both sides of the argument) path to citizenship for these people, and a strengthening of the border defenses. That said, I think my idea of border defense is a bit more harsh than many are willing to consider.

Whatever happens, just keep them in the south.

Originally Posted by CYDdharta

One of the only truly bipartisan issues, as far as our congresscritters goes, is that neither party really wants to solve the problem.

Correct.
And the reason why it hasn't been addressed for 20 plus years.

The Hispanic population is deadset against anything resembling border security...and is why in all likelihood - this will either disappear from an eventual bill...or it will be a watered down version.

Originally Posted by Redv

I don't see illegal aliens as scumbags any more than I see legal aliens as scumbags. All come here to improve their lives. They are all desparate to get out of the country of origin and come here with the hope of making their lives better. It doesn't really matter to me if the have a piece of paper saying they can live here or not. No one owns the world. Not even Americans.

So if I stole your flat screen so I could improve my life, you'd be OK with that? And sorry there, but this is our country, and America is a nation built on laws. We , as citizens are expected and required to abide by those laws. You can't produce a valid reason why people who enter this counrty in violation of our law should be ignored or exempted. I don't give a fuck what they want or need, I want and need things too, but I am not allowed to break laws to get them. If I do so anyhow, that makes me a CRIMINAL, like the criminal aliens that enter the USA illegally.

Originally Posted by ThorHammer

Agreed. A fence simply isn't feesable.

I fully support a reasonable (to both sides of the argument) path to citizenship for these people, and a strengthening of the border defenses. That said, I think my idea of border defense is a bit more harsh than many are willing to consider.

Whatever happens, just keep them in the south.

Too late for that.

Originally Posted by Commodore

That depends entirely on how well its built.

They ought to set up benches and drop 'em like prarie dogs.

What makes this country both unique and exceptional is our immigrant heritage.

That's part of what makes us unique. And the way the former contributes to the latter is that those immigrants came here with a can-do attitude to try and work towards a better life here in the US. While that also describes some current illegals, too many come here to either enjoy our various welfare programs, to exploit the illegal drug trade, and/or to take all the fruits of their labors back to their home country.

I think there is real possibility for a bipartisan bill to eliminate the illegal alien problem. For it to work, it has to be tough enough and really secure the border with a massive fence along with a reasonable path to citizenship and harsh penalties for employers.

One of the only truly bipartisan issues, as far as our congresscritters goes, is that neither party really wants to solve the problem.

Exactly. Democrats use illegal immigration as a method to suck up to minorities and thus buy votes. Republicans use illegal immigration as an end run around Democrats unemployability, um, minimum wage laws.