Thread: Depressing Unemployment -- Got Solutions?!

Originally Posted by eohrnberger

There is much discussion as to how to address the flagging economy, get the US workforce working at jobs again, growing the economy and being able to pay down the deficit as well as the debt that we've accumulated.

Many are of the position that government should tax more, and provide more services, similar in vein to the Western European democracies.

There are also many who see this continued growth of government cost, size, and intrusion as the wrong way to go about solving the economic and jobs problem.

I don't see higher taxes as being conducive to controlling government spending, which is what got our government into the miserable fiscal position it currently finds itself in. Greater tax revenues are best obtained by cutting government spending, cutting taxes, and growing the economy.

Also in this thread, there have been a number of complaints as to businesses sending jobs overseas, off shoring. Why do companies do this? Might the below links to discussions be legitimate observances as to the reason behind the off shoring?

Review & Outlook: The Send Jobs Overseas Act - WSJ.com

U.S. Losing Global Competitiveness with High Corporate Taxes | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News.

Falling Labor Costs Show Euro-Zone Deflation Risk - Real Time Brussels - WSJ

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/14/bu...bal/14yen.html

If Japan is indeed one of the competitor economies, and they have a plan for growing their business activity, shouldn't we consider this as a possible approach?

Yeah our tax rates are too high which makes us not competitive. If we would lower them, that woiuld make those offshored companies run back home and leave t.hat cheap labor paradise, No, the lower tax rates would increase the wealth of the elites.

What is the effective corp. tax rate? Not what we are told it is, but rather what rate they actually pay? We boomed when it was 51 per cent.

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

Yeah our tax rates are too high which makes us not competitive. If we would lower them, that woiuld make those offshored companies run back home and leave t.hat cheap labor paradise, No, the lower tax rates would increase the wealth of the elites.

What is the effective corp. tax rate? Not what we are told it is, but rather what rate they actually pay? We boomed when it was 51 per cent.

Just because we boomed in past circumstances with that tax rate doesn't mean that we'll boom again with that tax rate. I feel pretty sure in saying that the circumstances between then and now are significantly different so as this is not a solution for present circumstances. In fact, I think it would be detrimental to the point of killing the job creating golden goose, such as it were.

I think what we really need to do is to cut back government spending to the point where it's 10% of GDP, not 40% of GDP or more.

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

We have been in a global economy all of my life. I am over 60 btw.

And you are correct, and that is not gonna change. But we have not always allowed, as a Nation for corporations to offshore in order to utilize and take advantage of people in order to maximize income. Our economic policies had a different goal, the noble goal of providing honest work at a wage that would not only benefit the elite, but working Americans as well.

The monumental change is painfully felt today, as the very industry that traditionally pulled us out of recessions are not here today. When the gov't injects money into the hands of the consumer, that "would be" stimulus is wasted, as most of that money goes to China. No surprise their own economic growth is doing fine, as our stimulus dollars is helping China.

There is a great lack in economic common sense today, that bleeds over to other important areas. Our current economic model is now set up to maximize the wealth of the few. Every indicator points to this. One of the ramifications will be years of high unemployment rates, and a lost generation consisting of displaced workers who will see a large lowering of their standard of living.

As long as gov't policy puts maximizing first the profits of corporate globalization above the citizens of this Nation, everyone but the elites will suffer. That trend is observable and very clear for those actually genuinely interested in the truth of what this huge change in economic policy has yielded, and will continue to yield as time passes.

The people that maintain the current model cannot be changed forget that we changed an old model to get this new one. They act like our current model
came down from heaven. When the truth is that as we became less moral, and greed became noble, desirable and good, this current system is the result of that,IMO. In satisfying that greed, this Nation of average people were marginalized, discounted, and completely forgotten about by the gov't by and for the people.

I think this scenerio laid out here is blatantly obvious. And i think mucho time and money, along with a Press refusing to cover it is a conspiracy.

You preach your same old talking point.

You talk about corporations, and what does every American do, they shop at Wall Mart and other discount stores that have cheap clothing and furnitire and the like. And all these stores carry goods made offshore, further most of all that they sell is imported. You bitch about corporations but every American is doing exactly the same thing.

Now about the wealth in the hands of a few, if you look at the time frame from the 1970's to present, this country and the world has gone through a transformation. The introduction of the computer has changed the world how it works and then add on top of that the Internet, cell phones, Internet commence, GPS, ipods, etc etc. The people that pioneered this technology as developed and enormous wealth for this country and individuals and jobs. To name a few, Steve Jobs, Meg Whitman, Paul Allen, Bill Gates, Micheal Dell, and I could fill a bed sheet of names of individuals that pioneered this industry and created wealth. Microsoft has made more millionaires in it's company than any other in the world.

Now I know you want to strip these people of their wealth because according to you they have more than they need and you want it. Because in a socialistic society you are rewarded by what you need not by merit. But the truth is these wealthy people give their money away and that is their choice to make if they want to or not, why because they earned it.

Originally Posted by Forplay

You preach your same old talking point.

You talk about corporations, and what does every American do, they shop at Wall Mart and other discount stores that have cheap clothing and furnitire and the like. And all these stores carry goods made offshore, further most of all that they sell is imported. You bitch about corporations but every American is doing exactly the same thing.

Now about the wealth in the hands of a few, if you look at the time frame from the 1970's to present, this country and the world has gone through a transformation. The introduction of the computer has changed the world how it works and then add on top of that the Internet, cell phones, Internet commence, GPS, ipods, etc etc. The people that pioneered this technology as developed and enormous wealth for this country and individuals and jobs. To name a few, Steve Jobs, Meg Whitman, Paul Allen, Bill Gates, Micheal Dell, and I could fill a bed sheet of names of individuals that pioneered this industry and created wealth. Microsoft has made more millionaires in it's company than any other in the world.

Now I know you want to strip these people of their wealth because according to you they have more than they need and you want it. Because in a socialistic society you are rewarded by what you need not by merit. But the truth is these wealthy people give their money away and that is their choice to make if they want to or not, why because they earned it.

Wow ayn rand would be so proud of you! But unfortunately, Ayn was not aware of how wage disparity casues a problem in large economies.

I know all of you objectivists and libertarians want the government to leave your wallets and pocketbooks alone but such is not the stuff of reality.

Spending stimulates an economy not tax cuts. Spending spurs job creation because it signals demand, not tax cuts.

Companies don't outsource jobs because of taxes but because of labor costs. Corporations don't care abou the vagries of the economy they care about profits.

Originally Posted by Forplay

You preach your same old talking point.

You talk about corporations, and what does every American do, they shop at Wall Mart and other discount stores that have cheap clothing and furnitire and the like. And all these stores carry goods made offshore, further most of all that they sell is imported. You bitch about corporations but every American is doing exactly the same thing.

Now about the wealth in the hands of a few, if you look at the time frame from the 1970's to present, this country and the world has gone through a transformation. The introduction of the computer has changed the world how it works and then add on top of that the Internet, cell phones, Internet commence, GPS, ipods, etc etc. The people that pioneered this technology as developed and enormous wealth for this country and individuals and jobs. To name a few, Steve Jobs, Meg Whitman, Paul Allen, Bill Gates, Micheal Dell, and I could fill a bed sheet of names of individuals that pioneered this industry and created wealth. Microsoft has made more millionaires in it's company than any other in the world.

Now I know you want to strip these people of their wealth because according to you they have more than they need and you want it. Because in a socialistic society you are rewarded by what you need not by merit. But the truth is these wealthy people give their money away and that is their choice to make if they want to or not, why because they earned it.

I have never advocated for stripping the wealth. Plus, I don't need any of their wealth, personally.

The tech you mentioned in no way prohibits returning to an economic model that we lived under post ww2, that built a middle class that is in peril now thanks to corporate globalization, and priorities being changed.

I think that a Nation's economy is best served by NOT concentrating the wealth in the hands of a few who then use the power of money to skew the system in order to serve ONLY that groups wishes, and desires. This is our current model, that you defend, I don't like it, as it is an economic system that imperils the essential middle class and creates a future larger welfare class. Do the math, it is inescapable, if you follow how much money travels to the top.

Originally Posted by eohrnberger

I think what we really need to do is to cut back government spending to the point where it's 10% of GDP, not 40% of GDP or more.

If it is merely a matter of priorities, why not cut anything that does not provide for the general welfare and common defense?

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

I have never advocated for stripping the wealth. Plus, I don't need any of their wealth, personally.

The tech you mentioned in no way prohibits returning to an economic model that we lived under post ww2, that built a middle class that is in peril now thanks to corporate globalization, and priorities being changed.

I think that a Nation's economy is best served by NOT concentrating the wealth in the hands of a few who then use the power of money to skew the system in order to serve ONLY that groups wishes, and desires. This is our current model, that you defend, I don't like it, as it is an economic system that imperils the essential middle class and creates a future larger welfare class. Do the math, it is inescapable, if you follow how much money travels to the top.

I hear all this all the time, but you never outline the process you want to change anything. After WWII was far different than today, if you want to recreate the way things were then, it's never going to happen. Then our economy was not that global but today it is very global. You're living in the past, and further with any business you have to adjust to the conditions on the ground, and so does government and the workforce. Sorry but the world is moving on and global competition is what we're faced with today. Building walls to isolate ourselves is not ever going to happen with all the tariffs etc. hell we can't even close our own border let along close our borders to commence.

Originally Posted by netzen2010

Wow ayn rand would be so proud of you! But unfortunately, Ayn was not aware of how wage disparity casues a problem in large economies.

I know all of you objectivists and libertarians want the government to leave your wallets and pocketbooks alone but such is not the stuff of reality.

Spending stimulates an economy not tax cuts. Spending spurs job creation because it signals demand, not tax cuts.

Companies don't outsource jobs because of taxes but because of labor costs. Corporations don't care abou the vagries of the economy they care about profits.

Wage disparity, I just said Microsoft has created more millionaires than any company in the world.

What, you want government to take more of a persons money to do what? Waste it like it does ever dollar it takes in.

Then you speak of spending, who is spending these days? And why are they not spending, and what would it take to make them spend more. I get it all the businesses have to give their employees a raise. Why?

Oh yes they do outsource because of taxes. Hell they do that on a global scale no different than they do on a local scale. Business go where they get the best tax break and perks. Companies are leaving California by high numbers, why, because of taxes. Other states offer a better deal and they move. It's as simple as that.

Originally Posted by Forplay

I hear all this all the time, but you never outline the process you want to change anything. After WWII was far different than today, if you want to recreate the way things were then, it's never going to happen. Then our economy was not that global but today it is very global. You're living in the past, and further with any business you have to adjust to the conditions on the ground, and so does government and the workforce. Sorry but the world is moving on and global competition is what we're faced with today. Building walls to isolate ourselves is not ever going to happen with all the tariffs etc. hell we can't even close our own border let along close our borders to commence.

You are brainwashed. We have always had a global economy, but we never allowed our business to stampede to slave labor. We protected the american worker and never forced them to compete with folks making 18 cents an hour. What we see today is the result of changing who the gov't looked out for, and nothing more.

Today China is protecting their industry. While we allowed our own to leave to maximize profits. If this gov't would have allowed our industry to offshore in the 50s and 60s they would have done so and called it globalization. Yeah, we are not the same today, our leaders no longer look out for Americans, as they did post ww2. The greed for mo profits trumped the american worker. That is the sad truth of corporate globalization. Where in the past Capitalism benefitted the Nation and most of its people, that is quickly changing, and once again has regressed to where it creates wealth for only the few. Under the banner of Free Trade and Globalization, the latest attempt at once again concentrating wealth.

This new model can have a healthy stock market, with a 17 per cent unemployment rate. The elites are making money, while millions can't find A DECENT job. There is something badly wrong with this shit. It stinks. It is the what greed and Capitalism can create. Our leaders of post ww2 had enough morality and common sense to not go this route. They had different objectives, to elevate the average man, and they succeeded.

So don't tell me the current model was inevitable. This model is not a new idea. It just took some Repub dipshits to change FDRs proven model, and a few dumbass Dems to go along with it. The DINOs.

I would love to have 1/10th of the business lobby money that bought this "change" about.

China is using tarriffs on our goods. They are protecting their industry. You need to tell em, that won't work.

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

You are brainwashed. We have always had a global economy, but we never allowed our business to stampede to slave labor. We protected the american worker and never forced them to compete with folks making 18 cents an hour. What we see today is the result of changing who the gov't looked out for, and nothing more.

Today China is protecting their industry. While we allowed our own to leave to maximize profits. If this gov't would have allowed our industry to offshore in the 50s and 60s they would have done so and called it globalization. Yeah, we are not the same today, our leaders no longer look out for Americans, as they did post ww2. The greed for mo profits trumped the american worker. That is the sad truth of corporate globalization. Where in the past Capitalism benefitted the Nation and most of its people, that is quickly changing, and once again has regressed to where it creates wealth for only the few. Under the banner of Free Trade and Globalization, the latest attempt at once again concentrating wealth.

This new model can have a healthy stock market, with a 17 per cent unemployment rate. The elites are making money, while millions can't find A DECENT job. There is something badly wrong with this shit. It stinks. It is the what greed and Capitalism can create. Our leaders of post ww2 had enough morality and common sense to not go this route. They had different objectives, to elevate the average man, and they succeeded.

So don't tell me the current model was inevitable. This model is not a new idea. It just took some Repub dipshits to change FDRs proven model, and a few dumbass Dems to go along with it. The DINOs.

I would love to have 1/10th of the business lobby money that bought this "change" about.

China is using tarriffs on our goods. They are protecting their industry. You need to tell em, that won't work.

Again you give no guidance of how you wish to change things except to complain. If you have no solutions you have no debate. So quit with the rhetoric.

Originally Posted by Forplay

Again you give no guidance of how you wish to change things except to complain. If you have no solutions you have no debate. So quit with the rhetoric.

I have said countless times to GO BACK to the model we had before Reagen. You dense or what? This includes going back to the wise financial regs as well. I don't want new policy, just the policy that served us very well before the Pubs fucked things up. How hard is that to understand? I have lived under both. So the changes really stand out to me.

Originally Posted by Forplay

Wage disparity, I just said Microsoft has created more millionaires than any company in the world.

What, you want government to take more of a persons money to do what? Waste it like it does ever dollar it takes in.

Then you speak of spending, who is spending these days? And why are they not spending, and what would it take to make them spend more. I get it all the businesses have to give their employees a raise. Why?

Oh yes they do outsource because of taxes. Hell they do that on a global scale no different than they do on a local scale. Business go where they get the best tax break and perks. Companies are leaving California by high numbers, why, because of taxes. Other states offer a better deal and they move. It's as simple as that.

Wrong again! Within the US, companies move because of taxes, its the only financial break here. Wages between states would not vary enough to make moving a company worthwhile. US companies move overseas for the lower wages benefits. The wage disparity between the US and China or India far surpass the tax disparity between the US and those countries.

Without a stable community, made available by government, no one would get rich without facing serious threats to themselves snd their businesses. Therefore it's not to much to have top earners and large companies pay a greater share of the upkeep of the ordered community that they take advantage of for their fabulous wealth.

Originally Posted by Forplay

Again you give no guidance of how you wish to change things except to complain. If you have no solutions you have no debate. So quit with the rhetoric.

If you have no facts you have no debate. So quit your hype.