Thread: Anti-Union Bill Set to Pass In Wisconsin; Massive Protests Move Into Day 3

Originally Posted by CharlesDavenport

OK, I Googled it for you. Here is a nice summary for you folks - The Government Did It - Forbes.com

I won't talk about the cause of the economic meltdown again as it's not the thread topic. It was offered as an example of how artificial markets, whether it's government promoted bad loans or union "negotiated" compensation, are bad for everyone - including the "little guy" such markets are ostensibly created to protect.

I'm not getting into this again. I will say, I'm still wondering how Fannie & Freddie are responsible for not only the economic failure in the US but the failures in the global economy. It doesn't really make sense to me. I think there's more to the picture & I'll continue to look.

Originally Posted by Forplay

Now that is fair competition is it not, foreign manufactures ate our lunch when it came to engineering. Honda came out of nowhere, they first started making lawn mowers for Christ sake. Foreign countries, Japan, China, etc took our manufacturing away, with a better and cheaper product. We could not complete.

And that is exactly what I've been preaching, we are in a world economy, and our manufacturing fell asleep at the switch until it was to late.

With the auto's I totally agree with what you said above, but I'll add the unions did not help the situation, remember GM was the largest manufacture of Auto's in the world. So they were selling plenty of cars but the cost was to high compared to other manufactures that did not use union labor. It's hard to compare apples to apples when it comes to the autos. I agree they were making lousily car but the unions also weighed on their demise.

Then explain why Ford did not have to take government funds. They have the same unions, exact same costs. I'll explain it to you, better upper management allowed them to react better to what the car buying public wanted. Not unions, but better upper management.

Originally Posted by Oreo

Agreed--Toyota took over the industry back in the 70/80's with auto's that didn't break down--got better gas mileage etc. GM and other's were needing major replacements at 70K miles. It was junk--so they got their hinnie's kicked by foreign auto-makers. In the 90's the American auto industry came out with the Jeep and the Dodge ram truck which were hot sellers.

However--any and all profit out of these companies went for union benefits--adding an estimated $1600.00 to the sticker price of an auto. It's hard to believe that someone could retire with 80% of their base pay--which is what happened--and it literally bankrupted this industry. And in the too big to fail policy of Barack Obama--we the taxpayers paid billions to bail them out.

Then, why did Ford not have to take this same tax money? They had the same unions and exact same costs. I'll explain it to you, they had better upper management.

Originally Posted by MattInFla

The bottom line is that costs must come down.

With respect to common sense and fiscal responsibility, that is the bottom line. With respect to this bill, the subject of this thread, it's not. This thread is about a move by the Wisconsin governor and the Republicans in the legislature to emasculate the unions, not as a temporary emergency measure to meet the fiscal crisis but permanently. It's not a case of trying to balance a state budget. It's a case of using a crisis in a state budget as leverage to further weaken organized labor.

It's a separate issue entirely from Wisconsin's fiscal woes.

Originally Posted by ConLib

Then explain why Ford did not have to take government funds. They have the same unions, exact same costs. I'll explain it to you, better upper management allowed them to react better to what the car buying public wanted. Not unions, but better upper management.

I like how you use Ford who has been on the brink of bankruptcy, how many times now?

Now maybe you can explain how a company like Honda which started out making lawn mowers as grown to be one of the largest auto companies in the world. Then add their motorcycle line, outboard engines, and all the rest. They kicked our ass in engineering and labor, and that has been proven on almost every damn thing made in a factory. Better foreign engineering and labor as put us to shame.

So keep praising your unions, but they are in the stone age. The only place left for a union is sucking off the tits of governments.

Originally Posted by ConLib

Then, why did Ford not have to take this same tax money? They had the same unions and exact same costs. I'll explain it to you, they had better upper management.

Possibly better management that stood up against the Union and didn't let them run them into the ground.

However--there is no doubt that the reason the taxpayers of this nation bailed out GM and others to the tune of BILLIONS because the Union did run them into the ground. The auto union was too powerful.

There is no one in this country that can retire with 80% of their base pay--with medical benefits coming out their ears. And that's why they crashed.

And if you don't think that government workers can do the same with state budgets then you need to re-think the situation.

The obvious choices for Wisconsin are: Lay off thousands of state workers--including teachers--thereby swelling the size of class-rooms--or take the cut in their cadillac plans and retirements--or contribute more to them. There is no other choice.

Originally Posted by Forplay

I like how you use Ford who has been on the brink of bankruptcy, how many times now?

Now maybe you can explain how a company like Honda which started out making lawn mowers as grown to be one of the largest auto companies in the world. Then add their motorcycle line, outboard engines, and all the rest. They kicked our ass in engineering and labor, and that has been proven on almost every damn thing made in a factory. Better foreign engineering and labor as put us to shame.

So keep praising your unions, but they are in the stone age. The only place left for a union is sucking off the tits of governments.

Govermental subsidies by Japan helps destroy a manufacturing base in a nation that they are economically at war with.

Does anyone know how much of Wisconsins budget is public sector salaries?

Originally Posted by jviehe

Does anyone know how much of Wisconsins budget is public sector salaries?

Well, I wouldn't know.

I do know Obama promissed no no-bid contracts,

but most contracts have been delt to friends and contributers to Democratic party.

So much for honesty and efficiency with OPM. What else would you expect from Liar in Chief!!!!!!!!!!!

I couldn't help the slight tangentiality here.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Govermental subsidies by Japan helps destroy a manufacturing base in a nation that they are economically at war with.

Oh you mean we never subsided anyone or anything in this country. How about Europe have they not subsidized anyone or anything.

It was Japan's engineering that beat us, that's a fact. Of course we beat them in other things, but when it came to cars and the like they win hands down.

Originally Posted by Dragontalk

With respect to common sense and fiscal responsibility, that is the bottom line. With respect to this bill, the subject of this thread, it's not. This thread is about a move by the Wisconsin governor and the Republicans in the legislature to emasculate the unions, not as a temporary emergency measure to meet the fiscal crisis but permanently. It's not a case of trying to balance a state budget. It's a case of using a crisis in a state budget as leverage to further weaken organized labor.

It's a separate issue entirely from Wisconsin's fiscal woes.

Or in other words, never let a crisis go to waste. Opportunism is all this is. Which I have to hand it to em, the Pubs are masters.

Originally Posted by GeorgeLaw

Well, I wouldn't know.

I do know Obama promissed no no-bid contracts,

but most contracts have been delt to friends and contributers to Democratic party.

So much for honesty and efficiency with OPM. What else would you expect from Liar in Chief!!!!!!!!!!!

I couldn't help the slight tangentiality here.:rolleyes:

The fact that you think Wisconsin public sector jobs are filled by President Obama is a real problem. However, it can be corrected by not listening to Fox and a bit of NPR, or even reading a few books would help.

Originally Posted by jviehe

Does anyone know how much of Wisconsins budget is public sector salaries?

80% for wages and benefits--as far as the money that goes to education. Teachers salaries and benefits.