Thread: Anti-Union Bill Set to Pass In Wisconsin; Massive Protests Move Into Day 3

Originally Posted by Dragontalk

Let's see, I said:

1) That I don't know how Michigan could be considered outside the U.S.

2) That I wasn't the one who said you were from outside the U.S.

3) That the one who did say that may have made the mistake because your posts exhibit such ghastly ignorance about American culture and recent history.

4) That I was only guessing that that was her reasoning and had no real knowledge. And

5) That she was mistaken.

Now, you're saying that ALL of those statements are inaccurate? Hmm . . . that would mean you really ARE from outside the U.S., right?

Try to use a bit of commonsense which seems to be quite difficult for you. Show me of wise one where I showed ignorance?

Originally Posted by thanatos144

I moved last year to Florida.......Had to find a job and right to work states is the only way to go now. Even if I was still in Michigan how the fuck is that out of the US?

I once lived in the Florida Panhandle. I have never seen such an impoverished area except in parts of Appalachia. The Panhandle relied upon tourists, most of the folks had service jobs that paid barely enough to survive on. And Florida now has one of the highest unemployment rates...seems like you would have picked another Southern State, like Texas, or even in the West where in a couple States the rate is rather low compared to the rest of the Nation.

But welcome to the South, although much of Florida we don't even consider to be "in the South" due to the difference in people and cultures. Florida is where I go to vacation, and after living there for a short time, I would never go back to live! Visit, sure, reside, hell no! I feel more comfortable in the Old South. Rural Old South. Where folks still stop to help out a stranded motorist, and don't expect to be rewarded for their kindness. They do it cause it's still, at least so far, the right thing to do.

We have the "right to work" deal here in my own State. Yet our unemployment rate is hovering around 10 per cent but is closer to 20 per cent actually. The right to work isn't helping folks out in this Great Recession, at least in my State.

Originally Posted by thanatos144

Try to use a bit of commonsense which seems to be quite difficult for you. Show me of wise one where I showed ignorance?

On the other thread, you displayed that you know little about Constitutional law or what the Constitution requires of the states.

In this one, you have shown that you know little about U.S. labor history, the abuses of employers in the past, or the role of labor unions in ameliorating that and bringing about the middle-class society that prevailed in the 1940s-1970s. You judge unions solely in terms of your own experience with them.

You are very quick to deliver ill-considered and uninformed opinions like "unions are bad for the economy," which are so utterly wrong as to leave one breathless.

Will that do or should I go on?

Originally Posted by Dragontalk

On the other thread, you displayed that you know little about Constitutional law or what the Constitution requires of the states.

In this one, you have shown that you know little about U.S. labor history, the abuses of employers in the past, or the role of labor unions in ameliorating that and bringing about the middle-class society that prevailed in the 1940s-1970s. You judge unions solely in terms of your own experience with them.

You are very quick to deliver ill-considered and uninformed opinions like "unions are bad for the economy," which are so utterly wrong as to leave one breathless.

Will that do or should I go on?

) That was after you trued to insult me. By the way I am right in that other thread to but for you to find out you would have to investigate yourself. Cause no where in that clause doe it say if one state does it we all have to.

By the way Labor Unions have been around as long before trhw 40'3s and 70's ........I was alive during the 70's It was WORK Not unions that brought about the middle class. Unions just created a selfish society that thinks it has a right to things it doesnt.

Originally Posted by Dragontalk

Let's see, I said:

1) That I don't know how Michigan could be considered outside the U.S.

2) That I wasn't the one who said you were from outside the U.S.

3) That the one who did say that may have made the mistake because your posts exhibit such ghastly ignorance about American culture and recent history.

4) That I was only guessing that that was her reasoning and had no real knowledge. And

5) That she was mistaken.

Now, you're saying that ALL of those statements are inaccurate? Hmm . . . that would mean you really ARE from outside the U.S., right?

You are entirely correct, Dragontalk. I did make a mistake and I apologize for it.
My mistake was the result of my mistaking Thanatos144 with Thanatos.
Once again, I apologize to both of you.

YouTube - Reagan Says Being In A Union Is A Basic Right

this president would back the unions also.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

YouTube - Reagan Says Being In A Union Is A Basic Right

this president would back the unions also.

Didn't Regan fire all the air traffic controllers when they went out on an illegal strike?

Originally Posted by eohrnberger

Didn't Regan fire all the air traffic controllers when they went out on an illegal strike?

Yes, a president can do that to vital areas of operation that threaten the safety of the populace.

Originally Posted by thanatos144

) That was after you trued to insult me. By the way I am right in that other thread to but for you to find out you would have to investigate yourself. Cause no where in that clause doe it say if one state does it we all have to.

By the way Labor Unions have been around as long before trhw 40'3s and 70's ........I was alive during the 70's It was WORK Not unions that brought about the middle class. Unions just created a selfish society that thinks it has a right to things it doesnt.

But sir, in many sectors those unions help to provide for a living wage. I wish that we could always depend upon the rich to do the right and fair thing, but the history proves this not to be the case.

I do agree that some Unions have overstepped, and have indulged in the same greed that is inherit in the rich. But, no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are two basic parts to the creation of wealth. One is the owner who supplies the capital to create the business BUT the other is the worker who is essential in the creation of wealth. People who hate unions, I don't think recognize the essentialness of the worker, thereby giving him the right to bargain for his labor. Instead, they rather see the owner as a monarch of sorts, with all of the rights, while the worker has few, if any. Yet, both the rich and the worker are essential in the creation of wealth. No worker, no wealth to be created. An idea is just writing on a piece of paper, UNITL the worker makes it happen. So, the worker has great importance in thsi equation of generating wealth, yet some would deny them any rights to bargain, to be compensated fairly for their part in the creation of wealth.


But of course, you may live under the illusion that the rich are immune from the foible of human greed. The sooner you understand the ways of humans, the sooner you will understand unions, and their place.

I doubt that unions caused the demise of Michigan. Foreign competition, with no protection of the industry caused the demise of many industries here. Hell, I can recall when the Japanese cars got their foothold here in the States. It was after the first gas shortage of 73, the embargo. Detroit was geared up to make large cars, while Japan was making very small cars that were buzz boxes, but got great gas mileage. I knew tons of folks who traded in their gas hogs for small buzz boxes. From there it just snowballed, as Detroit had to make vast changes, and did not always succeed. Then we woke up one day to find the roads of America filled with more Japanese cars than American made cares. That should never have been allowed to occur. But it did occur and Detroit has suffered ever since. If you don't protect your own industry, it leads to what we see today. We used to protect our industy, but the need for greed changed that model. Hell, I watched this crap happen, as I was here when it did occur. I though it was insanity then, and I was damn well right in that observation.

Originally Posted by thanatos144

Florida is outside the US? Holy shit thats news to me.

You call Beck sick yet fail t0o show why..........Maybe cause you cant. He is a bit too preachy sometimes but I cant see how believing in God is a bad thing. Or do you mean all his theorems that seem to time and again prove to be correct?

As I already said in another post, I apologize for my mistake re: your location. I confused Thanatos144 with Thanatos.

Originally Posted by thanatos144
Florida is outside the US? Holy shit thats news to me.

You call Beck sick yet fail t0o show why..........Maybe cause you cant. He is a bit too preachy sometimes but I cant see how believing in God is a bad thing. Or do you mean all his theorems that seem to time and again prove to be correct?

Originally Posted by Sadanie

As I already said in another post, I apologize for my mistake re: your location. I confused Thanatos144 with Thanatos.

anybody that cries and babbles on like Beck, is in need of a counselor to help with his manic depression.

You mean what's left of the baby.
It doesn't make sense to me that people resent labor unions for what they have instead of saying "Hey that's a good idea, this coming together as a group to get a little more bargaining power!".
Unfortunately, it's cheaper now to ship the raw materials to another country and ship the finished product back here most of the time.
Maybe we should have globalized unions to go along with the globalized economy.

Originally Posted by Gridlylocks

You mean what's left of the baby.
It doesn't make sense to me that people resent labor unions for what they have instead of saying "Hey that's a good idea, this coming together as a group to get a little more bargaining power!".
Unfortunately, it's cheaper now to ship the raw materials to another country and ship the finished product back here most of the time.
Maybe we should have globalized unions to go along with the globalized economy.

I've made that observation before. All it could do is accelerate the growth of the middle class in the cheap labor countries that the work goes to so that the playing field is level again.

Heck, with the union membership being as low as it is around these parts now, it might be a growth opportunity for the unions, but it seems that either they are not allowed in country, or they can't see it as an opportunity.