Thread: "Torture did NOT play a role in OBL's removal" - McCain

Originally Posted by TomBlaze

McCain says torture did not lead to bin Laden - Politics - More politics - msnbc.com



Ya know, if it weren't for his fruit loop running mate, I may have actually considered him more seriously during the '08 elections. Torturing prisoners does not do any good and only creates a more dangerous situation during war time.

Dangerous for who?

Originally Posted by TomBlaze

Ya know, if it weren't for his fruit loop running mate, I may have actually considered him more seriously during the '08 elections.

Yeah, I had loads of respect for McCain before the elections. I may have even voted for him... then he picked Palin.

Torturing prisoners does not do any good and only creates a more dangerous situation during war time.

John would know.. him being a P.O.W. during Viet Nam and all..

Originally Posted by Jefe

Yeah, I had loads of respect for McCain before the elections. I may have even voted for him... then he picked Palin.



John would know.. him being a P.O.W. during Viet Nam and all..

So you got Obama instead, huge mistake.

There seems to be a good deal of confusion on if enhanced interrogation played a role in UBL's removal or not, not a very good sign.

Originally Posted by Forplay

So you got Obama instead, huge mistake.

So you have a device that allows you to travel to multiple dimensions and you've visited the one where McCain defeated Obama in the election? Does it also rain donuts and are the streets made of chocolate? Or are you just bitter that McCain ran one of the worst camapiagns in modern history?

We can't trust McCain anyway. He's such a flip flopping liar that he has no credibility. He's even flip flopped on the issue of torture.

Originally Posted by Sluggo

There seems to be a good deal of confusion on if enhanced interrogation played a role in UBL's removal or not, not a very good sign.

When it comes to McCain on this particular issue, I would be willing to put a lot stock into his view on the matter given his background.

So you got Obama instead, huge mistake.

I do not see it that way. In fact, I think that when we look back, we are going to see that he is one of the most pragmatic and capable Presidents that we have had in a very long time. He's not perfect but what President in history ever was?

So for you, it is my wish to see the dems sweep both houses with a newly re-elected Obama just so I can watch you squirm while the dems go ahead and perform a long overdue hatchet job to everything the reps have ever tried to accomplish (which would be exactly what this country needs) since Reagan. If things keep going the way they are, that is exactly what is going to happen.

Originally Posted by TomBlaze

When it comes to McCain on this particular issue, I would be willing to put a lot stock into his view on the matter given his background.



I do not see it that way. In fact, I think that when we look back, we are going to see that he is one of the most pragmatic and capable Presidents that we have had in a very long time. He's not perfect but what President in history ever was?

So for you, it is my wish to see the dems sweep both houses with a newly re-elected Obama just so I can watch you squirm while the dems go ahead and perform a long overdue hatchet job to everything the reps have ever tried to accomplish (which would be exactly what this country needs) since Reagan. If things keep going the way they are, that is exactly what is going to happen.

Well we're still waiting for anything remotely approaching "capable" to happen. Look on the bright side, if you get your wish, this country is dead in 20 years.

Originally Posted by 9aces

Well we're still waiting for anything remotely approaching "capable" to happen. Look on the bright side, if you get your wish, this country is dead in 20 years.

Funny. I have just the opposite view. If we let the radical right take over the country we will be doomed in less than a decade.

It not as much partisan as it is about corruption. There is simply far more corruption in the right wing than there is in the left. We would become economically enslaved by right-wing policy. The only reason they get elected is because they preach hate and spread lies and propaganda playing upon people's fears and intolerance towards other ways of life.

The dems have their faults. The extreme of which scares me as much as the extreme right but looking at history and the facts of the situation, any rational, non-hating individual would see that the way to solve the economic woes lies with the left.

FACT: Reps spend more than Dems
FACT: Reps borrow more than Dems
FACT: Every republican President since Eisenhower has greatly increased spending and debt which was summarily reduced by every Democrat that held office in the same time frame only to have the republicans destroy it all again.
FACT: The evidence for the Iraq war was a fabrication by the conservatives to justify a war that should have never happened. They even compromised national security by outing a CIA NOC.
FACT: Torture does not yield good intelligence and does more harm than good.

Nothing short of fact there. This is what I base my positions on. Spending has gone up under Obama as it has under every President in history. He reduced spending from the previous administration already.

John McCain would sell his mother into Eastern European prostitution for a gram of political advantage and he changes his principals when the wind blows.

Much respect for his military service - as a man, and as a politician, he's worthless.

This is political theater, as is everything else the man has done for the last decade.

Expect him to throw his hat in the ring in 3...2...1...

"I'm a staunch defender of American virtue whereas the President orders assasination!"

Originally Posted by Forplay

Dangerous for who?

Soldiers on the torturer's side.

I simply cannot understand why conservative torture defenders seem unable to understand this. The tortured can always lie and is more likely to, both because the torture angers him and/or because he didn't know in the first place and is just making something up so the torturer will stop. It also makes the soldier resist harder if he knows he will be tortured if captured and/or makes him feel even more vengeful to the torturer's side.

It's like shouting "No Prisoners" loud enought to be heard by the other side, just before you attack, in an attempt to frighten the other side and in circumstances where they cannot flee. They might indeed be frightened, yes, but they also now know they have no alternative but to fight to the death

If it worked, I'd be all for it, but I just don't see how it can.

My objection is purely practical, it simply seems the very height of stupidity. About the only thing it does do is allow the torturer to beat his chest and declare what a "man" he is. This is not worth extra risk to our soldiers

Originally Posted by Sluggo

There seems to be a good deal of confusion on if enhanced interrogation played a role in UBL's removal or not, not a very good sign.

Luckily however there can be no confusion as to which administration disbanded it's Bin Laden unit in 2006 and which one put it back together and doubled-down on finding him, and then killing him Chicago-gangsta style; bullet in the eye, body in the river.

The neo-cons are so jealous that it's funny to watch them sit there all self-important while they only pissed off dozens upon dozens of CIA and other folks who've come out over the past decade to write books denouncing all of the Bush administration's fucked-up practices.

Originally Posted by TomBlaze

When it comes to McCain on this particular issue, I would be willing to put a lot stock into his view on the matter given his background.

Understood but still, would be nice for all these tards to get the story straight which I will fully admit is a wildly unlikely request to be fulfilled.

The problem I had with McCain was his "side with almost everything bush does for 8 years in order to win the next GOP nomination" strategy. I say "almost" because he did come out against bush's torture policy. I'm not sure if this is just an extension of that, or whether maybe a bit of his old pre-2000 self still exists. He's at least calling BS where BS needs to be called in this situation.