Thread: NBC and the "Pledge of Allegiance"

Originally Posted by soot

The problem I have with all of this is that "God" doesn't necessarially denote a Christian God.

It's just the English word for "God".

Choose which ever dictionary you like best and look up the word God - you won't find anything there about a "One true Christian God".

All I see the phrase, "In God we Trust", saying is that we Americans trust in the idea of there being a God and we trust the God that we trust is there.

Since no directly religious conceptualization of God is hinted at anywhere in any official state documentation anyone, of any religious bent, is free to read in their own conceptualization.

If you're a Muslim then read into a trust in the Islamic God (Allah = "al" "ilah" = "the" "God" - literally).

If you're a Jew read any of the hundred and one names Jews use for God, or just read it G_d and be pissed that Americans have the gaul to actuallly spell the name out.

If you worship a tree God then read in that God.

Once we change the phrase to "the God of Abraham and Issac" or "God the Father, Son, and Spirit" then I'd have a problem because we'd be veering too far afield from the simple concept of a general God toward a very specific religious conception of God.

And understand that I'm not a Bible pounder and am not even particularly religious, hell, I'm an agnostic who leans a lot further toward "God is nonsense" than toward any kind of real belief.

This whole argument is really, really silly.

There was a random poll taken a couple years ago and of the tens of thousands of Americans polled over 90% believed in God (in the general sense of there being a God or supreme being/power/force/whatever).

Based on those statistics I'd say that America sure as fuck trusts in God.

I just think that too many people get butt hurt over nothing. People aren't happy unless they're being butt hurt.

People will read shit into a simple phrase that isn't actually there for the express purpose of having a justification for being butt hurt.

I don't disagree with much of that ... however I'd still ask you to address this point: If we changed "in God we trust" to "in Allah we trust", do you think people would have major objections? As you state, it means exactly the same thing.

Note: You can't just simplistically rationalize that it should be "God" and not "Allah" since this is an English speaking country ... after all e pluribus unum certainly isn't English and its printed on our money.

Originally Posted by TomBlaze

Jefferson Founded the country.

All by himself, I'm sure.

Originally Posted by JDJarvis

Wow what is it with "god" threads?
Many of our founding fathers would have probably whipped someone with a cane for suggesting a Pledge of Allegiance be spoken by free citizens of the republic.

Absolutely agreed.

Originally Posted by Unique POV

...the ten commandments, is government promotion of a particular religion and should not be allowed.

The 10 Commandments does not belong to a "particular religion."

Yes it does.

Originally Posted by Golden Cabal

Yes it does.

really what is the only religion it is from?

Originally Posted by Golden Cabal

Yes it does.

Gee, from what I understand, the Baptist, Catholic, Presbyterian, Methodist, Jewish, Islam, etc. religion all have a version of the Ten Commandments.

Yes, but it first appeared in Judaism.

Christians co-opted it. Then others religions co-opted it.

But is primarily Christian.

From the Wiki:

The Ten Commandments, or Decalogue (Greek: δεκάλογος), is a list of religious and moral imperatives that according to the Abrahamic religions was given by God to the people of Israel from the mountain referred to as Mount Sinai[2] or Horeb.[3] The Bible describes its form as being spoken by God and subsequently as an inscription God wrote with his finger on two stone tablets, which God gave to Moses. The Ten Commandments are recognized as a moral foundation in Judaism and Christianity. The text of the Ten Commandments appears in the Bible as two similar passages of length 14-15 verses: in Exodus 20:2–17[4] and Deuteronomy 5:6–21.[5] These passages are referred to elsewhere in the Bible as the ten devarim (statements),[6] which is the basis for dividing them into ten parts.

The Ten Commandments identify their source as the god who enacted the Exodus; and they prohibit having other gods before him, and making or worshiping idols; threaten punishment for those who reject him and promise love for those who love him; forbid blasphemy of his name; demand observance of the Sabbath and honoring one's parents; prohibit murder, adultery, theft, false testimony, and coveting of one's neighbor's goods. The scheme for partitioning the passages into ten units varies slightly between religions and denominations, as do their translation, interpretation and significance.

Ten Commandments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And Islams' Ten Commandments is very different from the Christian ones.

But believe whatever you want to.

Originally Posted by Forplay

In my opinion it is, it's a person's work and anytime you infringe on using a person's work to your benefit it is stealing. If you think anyone can use the wording of the Pledge and change it as they see fit and use it as their own. You are mistaken.

Not really. As you say, it's an opinion, and opinions cannot be wrong. It would be just as valid for me to say that every time you disagree with me it's murder.

Although in this case it would fall into a category of using selective definitions of words that have no legal validity.

Originally Posted by Rude Boy

Absolutely agreed.

I concur and I think the reason we are having a lot of god threads lately is that the tea baggers are starting to show their true colors in that their movement has less to do with fiscal responsibility and infrastructure and more to do with a push for faith-based legislation and people like Michele Bachman taking the position that god needs to direct our government.

YouTube - ‪Michele Bachmann Endorses Keep God in America Rally‬‏

The more the religious right push, the atheist left will push back harder. This will not end well, methinks. One group is going to lose and it won't be pretty either way.

Originally Posted by Jefe

The Pledge of Allegiance is in the public domain, and therefore can't be copyrighted, period.

So what you're saying is that Forplay doesn't know jack shit about copyright law? Oh well. At least he still has his opinion.

Would like to answer the assumption that the Ten Commandants are "Christian".
The Jewish, Christian, and Islamic religions are "Abrahamic" religions. FYI this is a article from Judaism 101.

The "Ten Commandments," the words recorded in Exodus 20, the words that the Creator Himself wrote on the two stone tablets that Moses brought down from Mount Sinai (Ex. 31:18), which Moses smashed upon seeing the idolatry of the golden calf (Ex. 32:19)? In the Torah, these words are never referred to as the Ten Commandments. In the Torah, they are called Aseret ha-D'varim (Ex. 34:28, Deut. 4:13 and Deut. 10:4). In rabbinical texts, they are referred to as Aseret ha-Dibrot. The words d'varim and dibrot come from the Hebrew root Dalet-Beit-Reish, meaning word, speak or thing; thus, the phrase is accurately translated as the Ten Sayings, the Ten Statements, the Ten Declarations, the Ten Words or even the Ten Things, but not as the Ten Commandments, which would be Aseret ha-Mitzvot.

Therefore, yes the term "Ten Commandants" is a English Christian term.

Originally Posted by Mrs. M

I see adding "under God" not as vindictive...

Sorry, gonna' sound the Bullshit Alarm on that one.

When christians did it, it wasn't vindictive, but if Atheists do it, it is?

What hypocritical bullshit...