Thread: Lowering the bar for Florida students.

Originally Posted by soot

See?

This is what I mean.

This is why I don't go down south.

Who does shit like this?

People in the 1950s who lived on farms, and the only entertainment was radio. You made your own entertainment, but I doubt your ever had to do so. Your life experience is apparently real limited.

And hey, keep your yankee ass up north. We got too many of you birds down here already. Y'all are destroying our culture. Plus we can't understand you, when you talk! Hard to tell its english. Ah, foreigners. And you keep taking our southern belles up north, soiling their character.

How low can they make the educational standards? Operate an Ipad and graduate? It must be. Here's something that has happened while I interviewed at least 3 HS grads:

Me: We use a lot of measurement here, how are you with decimals?
App: OK, I guess
Me: Are you used to fractions more than decimals?
App. Yeah, I guess
Me: OK if one inch is 1.0, what would a half of an inch be?
App; Uhhh......(looks up at ceiling) ummmm..........uhhhhh, I used to know this........
Me: Think about it.......if one inch is one point oh, what would half of that be?
App: I'm sorry, I'd have to brush up on it.

Now imagine trying to run a manufacturing plant full of these tards.

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

Well, I went to school, public school in the 50's and 60's and in the 60's we had to pass that JFK physical fitness test, and I think it was great. But much has changed in public schools since those days. I think more parents were involved in the education process in earlier times. Although my own parents were not, and it made no difference in my education. I think the main difference is that back in those day kids were taught deference and respect to their teachers, to authority. You went to school being conditioned to be that way, by your parents and by your local society. The teachers back then were mostly women, and since there wasn't many women in business, in corporations, as lawyers, etc, the quality of teachers we had were perhaps better than today. We had women who would be in high positions today in other fields, making more than a teachers pay.

I think the problem with education has many factors not just one or two. And the problems in education are a reflection of a changed society.I am talking public education here. Todays kids are hyper distracted with parents that allow the distractions. Much of our education is done after one leaves school and goes home. I think this has become a weak link in many homes in america. Today, I do not know of any middle, middle class families or upper middle class families that have problems with their children learning, even in public schools in my area. I think there a socio economic factor involved, but it's different than my school days. Different because almost everyone I knew in my country school were what would be considered poor by todays standards. Yet the education was better, people actually could read when they graduated. Our drop out rate wasn't large. I think we lost 5 or 6 people out of 50 something from grade school to high school. Most of those just joined their dad's on the family farm, and many ended up better off than some of the folks that graduated. Ah, those were good days for average people. We had hope, and looked towards a bright future, which most of us achieved.

So, there isn't just one problem, like bad teachers, although we have way too many in my local schools that should be working in a wal mart instead of teaching. It goes much deeper than that, because some kids in their classes have no problem learning. I guess these teachers just cannot reach the kids that are not self motivated, or motivated by parents. Perhaps a better teacher could. I sure do not know the complete answer. Or perhaps these kids would never improve, regardless of the teachers.

From my own experience, with my wife having retired from teaching, as well as her father, she says the parents changed over the years, and she got too many that had no interest in their children's education. When the child was doing bad, not studying, she would conference with them, and many times the parent just didn't care. Most were single moms who were too busy pursuing their own pleasure. This is a societal problem.

I also think the malaise of many of today's parents, created by their loss of opportunity plays a role. It is communicated to their kids, a hopelessness, that they take with them to school. Why study hard they think? I can make a better living selling drugs. At least then I can have great clothes, a real nice car, the latest gadget, etc. Look at my mom, she went to college and we are on food stamps! To dismiss this would be foolish, I believe.

It's a tough issue to address because education at its core is still a state issue and each state addresses it differently but I think you make a lot of valid points here.

Unions get a lot of well deserved blame in the NYC area but that is only part of the problem here. I think the demise of the traditional family and rise of the welfare state have contributed just as much to our poor educational system.

Originally Posted by soot

10 Most Violent States In The U.S. 2011:

10. Maryland
9. South Carolina
8. Oklahoma
7. Arkansas
6. Texas
5. Alabama
4. Florida
3. Nevada
2. Tennessee
1. Louisiana

None of those states are in the north.

Eight, including the two most violent, are southern.

Maybe I'll give you the freedom thing though, but just barely.

Other than CCW I can't think of one thing I've wanted to do and wasn't at liberty to do because of the state I live in. I guess given the fact that there's been one murder, one rape, and maybe a dozen assaults total in my town and the four surrounding towns in the last nine years the CCW is more a "like to have" than a "need to have".

If I lived in the south I'd demand a CCW too.

ETA: In the event folks are taking this shit I'm talking seriously, don't. I don't get down south frequently because I don't have much reason to be there but every time I've been I've enjoyed myself. I've been to South Beach twice, Disney World once, and between Ruskin, FL and coastal North Calorina I've been down about a dozen times fishing for Stripers, Snook, and Redfish. Clearly my exposure to crackers is greater than my exposure to southern glitterati and I like it that way just fine. Stereotypes are stereotypes and I'm just poking fun at y'all.

Shenanigans! Whats your source?

Great video showing one of the most important reasons our education system is failing.

Originally Posted by jviehe

Shenanigans! Whats your source?

http://economicsandpeace.org/wp-cont...eport-2011.pdf

Originally Posted by soot

http://economicsandpeace.org/wp-cont...eport-2011.pdf

LMFAO really?

Originally Posted by thanatos144

Great video showing one of the most important reasons our education system is failing.

Mehhh...

The number one reason our education system is failing is that our parents are failing.

Take your example as a case in point.

You didn't even know that your daughter couldn't perform to standard until after she'd already failed.

In my book that's a no go.

To your great credit you immediately took corrective action, but I would hazard to guess that the parents of students who fail multiple times, and who are the root of our "failing education system" statistics, take no such active interest. I've read the Internet in its entirety and I'm pretty comfortable going on the record, based on what I've seen, and stating thhat many parents probably couldn't pass a standardized elementary school test in math and English. Even if they wanted to help their kids most couldn't.

You can blame the teachers, blame the schools, blame the Democrats, blame whoever you want.

Americans seem to love blaming someone rather than taking responsibility.

But the bottom line is that when you were looking the other way your kid failed and when you became involved she exceded the standard.

Your level of interest and involvment changed, all else remained the same.

Pretty telling.

Kids go to school and study six or eight subjects a day, each for 45 minutes to a hour.

There are going to be one or two subjects, for most kids anyway, where 45 minutes a day just isn't going to cut it. Since math and reading/writing are the toughest subjects most kids are going to face in elementary school it stands to reason that most kids who have problems learning are going to have problems with those subjects.

If learning outside of school isn't enforced, especially in subjects where a student is naturally weak, the student just isn't going to master that material.

Unless you want the gubmint sending teachers into your home after hours, at your expense, then you need to close the gap in your childs learning on your own initiative.

I'm probably as anti-union as you are. I'm probably as anti-shitty teacher as you are.

But as with any group I'd expect that the really shitty teachers probably measure no more than 10%, maybe 15% out the outside.

Shitcan the 10% who really just suck at their job, replace them with great teachers, dedicate the same 45 minutes a day to learning math or reading in school, don't do anything about disinterestd and uninvolved parents, and maybe you'll get a small positive bump in test score numbers, maybe even a statistically signifigant bump, but you're not going to solve the problem.

Originally Posted by soot

. . . .

I'm probably as anti-union as you are. I'm probably as anti-shitty teacher as you are.

But as with any group I'd expect that the really shitty teachers probably measure no more than 10%, maybe 15% out the outside.

Shitcan the 10% who really just suck at their job, replace them with great teachers, dedicate the same 45 minutes a day to learning math or reading in school, don't do anything about disinterestd and uninvolved parents, and maybe you'll get a small positive bump in test score numbers, maybe even a statistically signifigant bump, but you're not going to solve the problem.

Agreed. Now we just have to 'adjust' the public sector unions that represent the teachers so that the failing teachers can be removed from the classroom. That ain't gonna be easy as deeply burrowed these unions are in the state legislatures (Witness Wisconsin).

Funny that many cry that education of the future generations is paramount for a successful future, justifying ever more expenditures, yet won't entertain this aspect which is just as important, as is the parenting part as well.

Originally Posted by soot

Mehhh...

The number one reason our education system is failing is that our parents are failing.

Take your example as a case in point.

You didn't even know that your daughter couldn't perform to standard until after she'd already failed.

In my book that's a no go.

To your great credit you immediately took corrective action, but I would hazard to guess that the parents of students who fail multiple times, and who are the root of our "failing education system" statistics, take no such active interest. I've read the Internet in its entirety and I'm pretty comfortable going on the record, based on what I've seen, and stating thhat many parents probably couldn't pass a standardized elementary school test in math and English. Even if they wanted to help their kids most couldn't.

You can blame the teachers, blame the schools, blame the Democrats, blame whoever you want.

Americans seem to love blaming someone rather than taking responsibility.

But the bottom line is that when you were looking the other way your kid failed and when you became involved she exceded the standard.

Your level of interest and involvment changed, all else remained the same.

Pretty telling.

Kids go to school and study six or eight subjects a day, each for 45 minutes to a hour.

There are going to be one or two subjects, for most kids anyway, where 45 minutes a day just isn't going to cut it. Since math and reading/writing are the toughest subjects most kids are going to face in elementary school it stands to reason that most kids who have problems learning are going to have problems with those subjects.

If learning outside of school isn't enforced, especially in subjects where a student is naturally weak, the student just isn't going to master that material.

Unless you want the gubmint sending teachers into your home after hours, at your expense, then you need to close the gap in your childs learning on your own initiative.

I'm probably as anti-union as you are. I'm probably as anti-shitty teacher as you are.

But as with any group I'd expect that the really shitty teachers probably measure no more than 10%, maybe 15% out the outside.

Shitcan the 10% who really just suck at their job, replace them with great teachers, dedicate the same 45 minutes a day to learning math or reading in school, don't do anything about disinterestd and uninvolved parents, and maybe you'll get a small positive bump in test score numbers, maybe even a statistically signifigant bump, but you're not going to solve the problem.

At what point does the people we pay to educate out children get held responsble for failing at the job we pay them for?????It is a cop out to just blame the parents all the time.

Originally Posted by thanatos144

At what point does the people we pay to educate out children get held responsble for failing at the job we pay them for?????It is a cop out to just blame the parents all the time.

While there are a lot of lousy teachers out there, the vast majority of the time you can point at the parents.

The liberal's hated of discipline and responsible behavior of the students doesn't help one bit either.

Originally Posted by soot

10 Most Violent States In The U.S. 2011:

10. Maryland
9. South Carolina
8. Oklahoma
7. Arkansas
6. Texas
5. Alabama
4. Florida
3. Nevada
2. Tennessee
1. Louisiana

None of those states are in the north.

Eight, including the two most violent, are southern.

Maybe I'll give you the freedom thing though, but just barely.

Other than CCW I can't think of one thing I've wanted to do and wasn't at liberty to do because of the state I live in. I guess given the fact that there's been one murder, one rape, and maybe a dozen assaults total in my town and the four surrounding towns in the last nine years the CCW is more a "like to have" than a "need to have".

If I lived in the south I'd demand a CCW too.

ETA: In the event folks are taking this shit I'm talking seriously, don't. I don't get down south frequently because I don't have much reason to be there but every time I've been I've enjoyed myself. I've been to South Beach twice, Disney World once, and between Ruskin, FL and coastal North Calorina I've been down about a dozen times fishing for Stripers, Snook, and Redfish. Clearly my exposure to crackers is greater than my exposure to southern glitterati and I like it that way just fine. Stereotypes are stereotypes and I'm just poking fun at y'all.

Here are the govt figures:
State Rankings--Statistical Abstract of the United States--Violent Crime Rate
I have to laugh at "legislated to death" California, who's gun laws are some of the most restrictive in the nation. Look at their ranking and then Texas' who has some of the most lax gun laws.

Originally Posted by thanatos144

At what point does the people we pay to educate out children get held responsble for failing at the job we pay them for?????It is a cop out to just blame the parents all the time.

I don't just blame the paretns.

I've been saying throughout this thread that I agree with you that unions need to be squashed and ineffective teachers need to be fired.

If I had my way there would be no public education unions and MBAs who had cut their teeth in for-profit business would be managing and administrating our schools.

But I don't even think that these drastic changes would greatly improve the percentage of children who do really well in school to those who do poorly.

I think these steps would make schools more efficent, would help to keep costs down, would allow kids who are already receiving the support that they need outside of school to do even better, and would probably have to have some small impact on the quality of education kids are receiving more generally, but it wouldn't be the silver bullet you're looking for.

The silver bullet, as you've seen yourself, between a kid failing and a kid passing, is parental (or some adult role model) involvment.

My point isn't that unions are sacrosanct or that teachers should be defended against all comers.

My point is simply that what you think is going to be a cure is just a band-aid.