Thread: hath the Government 'o the United States been compromised?

Originally Posted by tsquare

If you didn't know by now guys, MeadHallPirate is playing with you...

ahoy Tsquare,

well, what be yer opinion 'o the efforts 'o these five GOP lawmakers in thar crusade to keep the upper reaches 'o government free from radical islamofacism?

be this a good and proper use 'o taxpayer monies?

more importantly, do ye see this threat as real and legitimate?

- MeadHallPirate

McCain did a pretty good job of calling out this idiocy perpetrated by his fellow republicans; even if he didn't call out Bachman and others by name.

"These allegations about Huma and the report from which they are drawn are nothing less than an unwarranted and unfounded attack on an honorable woman, a dedicated American and a loyal public servant," McCain said in a speech on the Senate floor on Wednesday morning.

The accusations stem from a report by the Center for Security Policy. The organization is run by Frank Gaffney, who has been crusading against the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood and Sharia law for years.

Bachmann, along with Reps. Trent Franks (R-Ariz.), Louie Gohmert (R-Texas), Thomas Rooney (R-Fla.) and Lynn Westmoreland (R-Ga.), recently sent letters to five federal agencies demanding investigations into infiltration by the Muslim Brotherhood, citing Gaffney's work.

McCain never mentioned Bachmann or the other lawmakers by name, but pointedly criticized their letters and the report, noting he had worked with the Center for Security Policy in the past.

"The letter alleges that three members of Huma’s family are 'connected to Muslim Brotherhood operatives and/or organizations,'" he said. "Never mind that one of those individuals, Huma’s father, passed away two decades ago. The letter and the report offer not one instance of an action, a decision or a public position that Huma has taken while at the State Department that would lend credence to the charge that she is promoting anti-American activities within our government."

"These attacks on Huma have no logic, no basis and no merit," McCain added. "And they need to stop now."

To spice this mighty discussion with some facts :

The Muslim Brotherhood is a movement founded in 1928 (and not recently) in Egypt, and has spread over time to a couple of neighbouring countries, like Libya, Tunisia, Palestine and Syria. The Muslim brotherhood was founded by arab intellectuals who opposed western cultural and political influence (and western colonial rule) and wanted to promote an alternative, panarabic, islamic, political, societal and cultural vision and "reawaken" the glorious arab past by promoting traditional values, societal justice etc. The Muslim brotherhood has goals for the arab world and inside the arab world, it has never sought converts nor has it ever been active in western countries, neither the US nor Europe, wether politically nor through violence. In Egypt itself the Muslim brotherhood has gathered its considerable support mainly through social and charity work, violence has been renounced decades ago. The reason is simply that Egypts "pro-western", "moderate" various military regimes ( also Mubarak was an ex-airforce general) were simply too busy to line their pockets to also concern themselves with the countrys poor. For those people the brotherhood runs a wide, well-organized, and remarkably non-corrupt social and welfare network and its activists are normally not foaming Mullahs, but well educated experts, often from western universities ( like president Mursi, who has a PHD from the US). That, and the fact that the Brotherhoods facilities are often the only source of help, welfare and assistance for millions is their main power and supporters base.
It is very hard to explain to Egyptians why giving the brotherhood ( whose prosecution has always only made them stronger) the chance to show they can actually govern would be worse than a return of the old crooks. That the people can overthrow a governement that has lost their support they have shown already once. To respect the choice of the people means in no way to have sympathy for the Muslim Brotherhood as an organization. But we should do it for our own sake, to feel less hypocritical in the future, the next time we lecture Arabs about the beauty of democracy. The Muslim Brotherhood has by the way pledged to honour ALL international treaties, INCLUDING the peace treaty with Israel. Not out of pure kindness, but because its leaders are aware that people care less about their position on the jewish state than about their success in turning the economy around. And that this won´t work without western support.
For all these reasons Mrs. Bachmans remarks are beneath hilarious. And finally, can anyone explain why democratic elections in Egypt, that have predictably resulted in a islamic conservative governement are supposed to be a problem, while MUCH more extreme Saudi-Arabia that is light years away from events like popular votes, and that does not even allow women to drive a car, is considered a favourite ally ?

ahoy Voland,

whilst i appreciate ye addin' yer facts and reasonable observations 'bout the Muslim Brotherhood, that really doesn't address the concerns that conservatives have regardin' the infiltration, and aye...the deep penetration that these dangerous elements have made into our government.

it may be easy fer yer to dismiss these concerns as ye be far from our shores, but most americans don't have that luxury, me friend.

fer conservatives (particularly them who hath Tea Party inclinations) the danger be real, and the long term ramifications be devestatin'.

Congressperson Louis Gohmert be one 'o the four conservatives who hath set sail with Mrs. Bachmann in an attempt to protect our nation and our very way 'o life from these elements;

The colorful Texas Republican, who is closely aligned with the Tea Party movement, took to the House floor and Fox Business in 2010 to warn the world about a flood of terrorist babies invading our shores from Muslim nations.

“It appeared they would have young women who became pregnant [and] would get them into the United States to have a baby. They wouldn’t even have to pay anything for the baby,” Gohmert said on the floor in June of that year. “And then they would return back where they could be raised and coddled as future terrorists. And then one day, 20, 30 years down the road, they can be sent in to help destroy our way of life,” he explained.

Michele Bachmann’s hateful cronies - Salon.com

this be what separates conservatives from liberals - they're not afraid to defend our way 'o life and are proud 'o thar country....aye, and more...they love America.

*shakes his fist at the sky*

aye!

- MeadHallPirate

Originally Posted by Unique POV

McCain did a pretty good job of calling out this idiocy perpetrated by his fellow republicans; even if he didn't call out Bachman and others by name.

Just watched him on a CNN program, the old Larry King show. He called her by name here, but was kind in his words, while letting everyone know he doesn't approve of such things. He did call that birther sheriff in Az. a crazy. Nice to hear a moderate call these guys what they are. Crazy.

I should have voted for him in 08. He should have chosen another running mate!

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

Just watched him on a CNN program, the old Larry King show. He called her by name here, but was kind in his words, while letting everyone know he doesn't approve of such things. He did call that birther sheriff in Az. a crazy. Nice to hear a moderate call these guys what they are. Crazy.

I should have voted for him in 08. He should have chosen another running mate!

Islamic terrorism is a great Republican gimmick for appropriating more tax money into their districts.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

Islamic terrorism is a great Republican gimmick for appropriating more tax money into their districts.

Is that one of the areas they want to cut, when they cut spending? Or is it just the social safety nets they got their razor sharp eyes on?

You know, just looking at the circus created by the cons and the tea people, one gets the idea that they have made themselves mentally ill in their hatred of obama, and are doing stuff that the mentally ill would do. All that is missing is the slobber running down their chins, and the twitch of the head, as they dodge imaginary bats. Hatred will drive you crazy.

There once was a republican that was riding a train, sitting next to a well to do looking chap. The republican was dropping bits of his sandwich down into an open bag between his legs. The well to do chap asked him what was he doing. The republican replied that he was feeding his mongoose.

"Good lord man, what are you doing traveling with a mongoose?" The republican explained that he was an alcoholic and suffered from delirium tremens and would see snakes, and the mongoose was what he kept in order to kill the snakes.

"But don't you realize the snakes are imaginary" asked the well to do fellow?
"Sure" said the republican, "but so is the mongoose".

So it seems republicans have always been afflicted with the imaginary.

BD,
You have no idea how much you make me laugh.

Originally Posted by Voland

To spice this mighty discussion with some facts :

The Muslim Brotherhood is a movement founded in 1928 (and not recently) in Egypt, and has spread over time to a couple of neighbouring countries, like Libya, Tunisia, Palestine and Syria. The Muslim brotherhood was founded by arab intellectuals who opposed western cultural and political influence (and western colonial rule) and wanted to promote an alternative, panarabic, islamic, political, societal and cultural vision and "reawaken" the glorious arab past by promoting traditional values, societal justice etc. The Muslim brotherhood has goals for the arab world and inside the arab world, it has never sought converts nor has it ever been active in western countries, neither the US nor Europe, wether politically nor through violence. In Egypt itself the Muslim brotherhood has gathered its considerable support mainly through social and charity work, violence has been renounced decades ago. The reason is simply that Egypts "pro-western", "moderate" various military regimes ( also Mubarak was an ex-airforce general) were simply too busy to line their pockets to also concern themselves with the countrys poor. For those people the brotherhood runs a wide, well-organized, and remarkably non-corrupt social and welfare network and its activists are normally not foaming Mullahs, but well educated experts, often from western universities ( like president Mursi, who has a PHD from the US). That, and the fact that the Brotherhoods facilities are often the only source of help, welfare and assistance for millions is their main power and supporters base.
It is very hard to explain to Egyptians why giving the brotherhood ( whose prosecution has always only made them stronger) the chance to show they can actually govern would be worse than a return of the old crooks. That the people can overthrow a governement that has lost their support they have shown already once. To respect the choice of the people means in no way to have sympathy for the Muslim Brotherhood as an organization. But we should do it for our own sake, to feel less hypocritical in the future, the next time we lecture Arabs about the beauty of democracy. The Muslim Brotherhood has by the way pledged to honour ALL international treaties, INCLUDING the peace treaty with Israel. Not out of pure kindness, but because its leaders are aware that people care less about their position on the jewish state than about their success in turning the economy around. And that this won´t work without western support.
For all these reasons Mrs. Bachmans remarks are beneath hilarious. And finally, can anyone explain why democratic elections in Egypt, that have predictably resulted in a islamic conservative governement are supposed to be a problem, while MUCH more extreme Saudi-Arabia that is light years away from events like popular votes, and that does not even allow women to drive a car, is considered a favourite ally ?

Sounds like the Muslim Bro's just want theocracies, not secular gov't. I wonder how they view and treat christians and jews, buddhist, hindus that would live in their countries? Could these people practice their religion, freely, safely, not having to worry about the muslims seeing them as infidels, to be converted or killed?

I think when the US wants to spread democracy, they are interested in spreading secular democracies, as religious freedom is part of our idea of democracy. If a nation has a democratic election, and elects a dictator, a king, a theocracy, perhaps our idea of pushing democracies on others may not have been a good idea.

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

Mrs. Bacchman, understandably, has voiced a credible anxiety regardin' deep penetration (she sits on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, aye). do ye all think somethin' will be done 'bout this?

Michelle Bachmann is a flake. Her own Party is lining up to knock her down about these claims.

Republicans line up to rip Michele Bachmann - Jake Sherman - POLITICO.com

Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) said merely floating the idea that Huma Abedin — a top aide to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton — has family ties to the radical Middle East group is “pretty dangerous.” “I don’t know Huma, but from everything I do know of her, she has a sterling character,” Boehner told reporters Thursday. “And I think accusations like this being thrown around are pretty dangerous.” Later on CNN, Boehner said he expects to speak to Bachmann soon.

Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Mich.), the chairman of the Intelligence Committee, was described by several sources as incredibly angry when he heard of the incident.

Rep. Jeff Flake, a conservative Arizona lawmaker running for Senate, tweeted “Kudos to @SenJohnMcCain for his statement on Senate floor yesterday defending Clinton aide. Well said.”

I think the best comment though comes Ed Rollins, her former presidential campaign manager "... said in a post on Fox News’s website that Bachmann has “difficulty with her facts.”

I think Bachman is missing the national exposure, and is looking for a reason to make the media take notice of her. I see from her ltatest fundraising reportsd though that she has raised half as much for her re-election campaign then at the same time in the last election cycle. Having people like Bachmann in Congress just send the message to kids that you don't need to be very bright in order to reach the highest levels of govt.

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

Sounds like the Muslim Bro's just want theocracies, not secular gov't. I wonder how they view and treat christians and jews, buddhist, hindus that would live in their countries? Could these people practice their religion, freely, safely, not having to worry about the muslims seeing them as infidels, to be converted or killed?

I think when the US wants to spread democracy, they are interested in spreading secular democracies, as religious freedom is part of our idea of democracy. If a nation has a democratic election, and elects a dictator, a king, a theocracy, perhaps our idea of pushing democracies on others may not have been a good idea.

The Muslim Brotherhood has pledged to honour all international treaties, keep the peace with Israel, and play by democratic, parliamentary rules. And Egypt has a strong christian minority, the Kopts (around 10 % of the population). For the moment that is all that has to count for us in the West, since it is THEIR country, and the new governement has a clear democratic mandate.
Islamic conservative or not, these are intelligent, educated people who are aware that they need at least constructive relations with the West ( many have studied in the US or Europe) and also their own christians ( since many of them are parts of urban elites and business) to turn their economy around, and THAT will be the priority for years to come and their measure of success.
If they fail given the chance to rule, than that is the best that their enemies can hope for. If they succeed, than Egypt could join the small league of democratic or semi-democratic muslim nations ( Turkey, Lebanon, recently Tunisia and Libya f.e.) But none of that is our business. Nations have to develop their own systems of governements, and undergo their own political evolution, suitable for their needs, secular or not ( not to mention that our systems may be more advanced currently but are hardly the peak of wisdom as well), and the US hasn´t supported a secular democracy before either, but a corrupt and brutal military/secret service dictatorship headed by the ex air force general Mubarak. If you are concerned about a theocracy and spreading democracy than take Saudi-Arabia, that is much worse than anything Egypt can be reasonably expected to come up with in the years ahead.

Originally Posted by Voland

The Muslim Brotherhood has pledged to honour all international treaties, keep the peace with Israel, and play by democratic, parliamentary rules. And Egypt has a strong christian minority, the Kopts (around 10 % of the population). For the moment that is all that has to count for us in the West, since it is THEIR country, and the new governement has a clear democratic mandate.
Islamic conservative or not, these are intelligent, educated people who are aware that they need at least constructive relations with the West ( many have studied in the US or Europe) and also their own christians ( since many of them are parts of urban elites and business) to turn their economy around, and THAT will be the priority for years to come and their measure of success.
If they fail given the chance to rule, than that is the best that their enemies can hope for. If they succeed, than Egypt could join the small league of democratic or semi-democratic muslim nations ( Turkey, Lebanon, recently Tunisia and Libya f.e.) But none of that is our business. Nations have to develop their own systems of governements, and undergo their own political evolution, suitable for their needs, secular or not ( not to mention that our systems may be more advanced currently but are hardly the peak of wisdom as well), and the US hasn´t supported a secular democracy before either, but a corrupt and brutal military/secret service dictatorship headed by the ex air force general Mubarak. If you are concerned about a theocracy and spreading democracy than take Saudi-Arabia, that is much worse than anything Egypt can be reasonably expected to come up with in the years ahead.

The USA fully supports free and democratic elections as long as a party favourable to their interests wins.

Let someone win a free and democratic election who disagrees with US foreign policy and they start crying foul.

Some info on this:

Rep Louie Gohmert goes off on DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano ~ Thanks Rep Louie! - YouTube