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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2007
Secretary of Defense
A libertarian first, a Libertarian second

 
Member Since: Mar 2004
Location: Liberty
Posts: 2,518

   
Re: Let States decide Minimum Wage

Quote:
Originally Posted by emptypepsi View Post
In the midst of this argument over a minimum wage hike, I've only seen two viewpoints (as if these are the only ones to consider) - get rid of it or bring it higher via federal law.

I have to ask, why is it so absurdly out of the question to let states decide what their minimum wage will be and leave the federal government out of it? Living expenses and many other things that affect taxpayers differ from state to state, so why do people think a "one size fits all" solution will do the trick? In fact, it's detrimental to the taxpayers. If left to the states, at least tax-payers will be able to make a choice (actually, 49 of them) as to which is going to be most benficial to them. Furthermore, states could learn from the other states mistakes via their laws.

The people living in the states know a lot more as to what would work for them than any D.C. shmuck.

This is a viewpoint I've only seen one other poster bring to light, and I've not seen anyone approach it. What do others think about this? Has anyone thought about this?
As a question of Constitutionality, it should definatly be left up to the states. The Congress should not set, nor forbid mimimum wage. The only correct choice for the states, however, is to have no mimimum wage laws. Economic laws do not change from area to area. The Law of Supply, Deman, and Marginal Utility stay constant in every area.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2007
Secretary of Defense
A libertarian first, a Libertarian second

 
Member Since: Mar 2004
Location: Liberty
Posts: 2,518

   
Re: Let States decide Minimum Wage

Yeah, democracy is bad. That is why I don't live in a Democratic country.

Tell me, if it was the will of the people to kill you, would you be aliright with that? Probably not.

Similarly, I don't like when the "will of the people" dictate how much I can work for.
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"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question."
-Thomas Jefferson in his first inauguration address
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2007
President

 
Member Since: Jan 2004
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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United_States    
Re: Let States decide Minimum Wage

Quote:
Originally Posted by liberty1776 View Post
Yeah, democracy is bad. That is why I don't live in a Democratic country.

Tell me, if it was the will of the people to kill you, would you be aliright with that? Probably not.

Similarly, I don't like when the "will of the people" dictate how much I can work for.
As long as I have a choice in my leadership, and the freedom to leave the country, then the will of people is my own. The constitution specifically prohibits the loss of life without due process. So, yes, if the will of the peopel as expressed in our democratic processes results in someone death, I am ok with it.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2007
City Council Member
Forgive them for they know not what they do

 
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Location: Nor Cal
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Re: Let States decide Minimum Wage

I think each state should be able to choose. The cost of living in each state is different. The minimum wage should be calculated based on a the cost of living in each state.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2007
emptypepsi's Avatar
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member
Un hombre muy honrado ;)

 
Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,561

United_States     Texas

Re: Let States decide Minimum Wage

Agreed. A one-size-fits-all minimum wage is detrimental to each individual state compared to states deciding on their own.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2007
President

 
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Re: Let States decide Minimum Wage

And that goes all the way down. Different markets, different business have different wage requirements to remain competitive. For example, in Destin florida there is a shortage of workers. Taco bell hires at $15 an hour with a $500 signing bonus. In Miami, its a low as possible since there is a glutton of workers. Forcing a minimum wage would keep people from moving to Destin to take advantage of higher wages, and prohibit businesses in miami from competing.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2007
wphelan's Avatar
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Member Since: Jun 2004
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Re: Let States decide Minimum Wage

In previous threads I've also advocated that minimum wage laws should be left to individual states to decide (as should most other laws). One of the primary arguments I encountered was that it would lead to a "race to the bottom" among the states. I personally don't think the argument is very compelling. The significant differences between states and regions in this country seems to be the most obvious argument against a nationally mandated minimum wage. In addition to my fundamental concerns with the power and scope of the national government, ignoring the economic differences within the country just doesn't make sense to me.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2007
President

 
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United_States     Romania

Re: Let States decide Minimum Wage

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpMediaSux View Post
Wow, democracy must suck for you, what with all the will of the people and everything.
Pure democracy, or anything near it, does suck. That's because a lot of the time, the people want to give the government the right to hold their hand and control everything because their life is hard. Minimum wage, welfare, etc...
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2007
Angry American's Avatar
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Oct 2006
Location: Birthplace of American Democracy
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Re: Let States decide Minimum Wage

Quote:
Originally Posted by emptypepsi View Post
In the midst of this argument over a minimum wage hike, I've only seen two viewpoints (as if these are the only ones to consider) - get rid of it or bring it higher via federal law.

I have to ask, why is it so absurdly out of the question to let states decide what their minimum wage will be and leave the federal government out of it? Living expenses and many other things that affect taxpayers differ from state to state, so why do people think a "one size fits all" solution will do the trick? In fact, it's detrimental to the taxpayers. If left to the states, at least tax-payers will be able to make a choice (actually, 49 of them) as to which is going to be most benficial to them. Furthermore, states could learn from the other states mistakes via their laws.

The people living in the states know a lot more as to what would work for them than any D.C. shmuck.

This is a viewpoint I've only seen one other poster bring to light, and I've not seen anyone approach it. What do others think about this? Has anyone thought about this?
The states can and do decide what their minimum should be, all the federal government does is set a baseline; a measure to which guarentees a minimum standard in every state. This is supposed to be the United States of America, not the Independent States of America.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2007
emptypepsi's Avatar
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member
Un hombre muy honrado ;)

 
Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,561

United_States     Texas

Re: Let States decide Minimum Wage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry American View Post
The states can and do decide what their minimum should be, all the federal government does is set a baseline; a measure to which guarentees a minimum standard in every state. This is supposed to be the United States of America, not the Independent States of America.
Exactly how does letting a state set it's own standard of minimum wage make us not united anymore?
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2007
Luap's Avatar
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Member Since: May 2006
Location: The world
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Earth     United_States

Re: Let States decide Minimum Wage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry American View Post
The states can and do decide what their minimum should be, all the federal government does is set a baseline; a measure to which guarentees a minimum standard in every state. This is supposed to be the United States of America, not the Independent States of America.
Still, the federal government is establishing a "minimum minimum wage." The states only have the right to set their wages at it or above it, not below it. Also, I don't really understand your comment about the name of this country, and emptypepsi brought a good point against it anyway. The Constitution was meant to establish a degree of indepedence in matters of state law - do you prefer a centralized federal government over more local government because we call ourselves "united" and not "independent?"

Back to the initial question, anyway.

Someone has already brought it up, but the issue of a minimum wage is something of a red herring here in America. It is more important elsewhere in the world, where multinationals are flocking to purchase the cheapest labor they can find, causing laborers to compete against other laborers across the globe - national minimum wages seemed to only occur when this competition could be seen at a national level. I bet sometime in the future (perhaps far after I'm dead, perhaps nearer) we will see the United Nations attempt to establish a global minimum wage.

I prefer that this matter is put in the hands of more local institutions than some cumbersome central bureaucracy, be that at a national level or even a inter- or supra-national level; I'm something of a localist in most matters. I'd prefer that even state governments hand that authority to more local governments, but at least we could bring that debate to a level closer to most citizens (rather than federal-state debate, it would be state-local debate).

Quote:
Originally Posted by liberty
Yeah, democracy is bad. That is why I don't live in a Democratic country.

Tell me, if it was the will of the people to kill you, would you be aliright with that? Probably not.

Similarly, I don't like when the "will of the people" dictate how much I can work for.
Spoken like a true "libertarian" I see. Well, the "will of the people" also tells you a lot of other things, such as you cannot go aggressively kill your neighbor, or rob that pedestrian. I understand that pure democracy can sometimes prove unjust, as it is really just the "tyranny of the majority," but to make the blanket statement "democracy is bad" betrays your supposed libertarian tendencies.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2007
President

 
Member Since: Jan 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 15,343

United_States    
Re: Let States decide Minimum Wage

I am not an advocate of minimum wage hikes. It does nothing for the economy, especially when a good portion of that economy is based on small business revenue. The only things these federal wage hikes seem to do is cause a price equilibration, damn the small business casualties, and foster future votes for those legislators who support the hikes.

They are trying to alleviate to impact of those wage hikes on small business with a small business tax cut bill, Rangel, McCrery introduce small-business tax cuts. I believe that our representatives do recognize the concept of multiple micro-economies across our nation and the effects of minimum wage hikes on those they affect the most, but the legislators also want to keep their jobs when the next election comes around.

Unfortunately, emotional issues drive many voters and our elected representatives know this, thus the support for wage hikes.

Also, the media gave the minimum wage hike a lot of coverage; that sure gets a bunch of ratings. Will the media give the small business tax cut bill a lot of coverage, too, so that the listeners and viewers can see what is needed to protect our economy? I doubt it. When our school systems choose to educate future voters on the basics of economics (and other subjects), perhaps we will see more informed voters.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2007
President

 
Member Since: Jan 2004
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 18,240

United_States    
Re: Let States decide Minimum Wage

Yes, you rarely hear from the media how the minimum wage would actually affect people. They leave you to believe that a large number of people are living off it, when that isnt that case.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2007
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: May 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 5,047

Brazil     Wisconsin

Re: Let States decide Minimum Wage

Actually,

The Minimum Wage effects ALL wages in this country.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2007
Luap's Avatar
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: May 2006
Location: The world
Posts: 3,024

Earth     United_States

Re: Let States decide Minimum Wage

Could you elaborate?
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And therefore, never send to know
For whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.

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