I'm sure he'd admit that not everyone has as tight a grip on knowing the difference between right and wrong today.

Right and wrong is becoming more and more "relative". Meaning that everyone can have their OWN definition of right and wrong.

This doesn't help the stability of a civilization or society that wants to remain strong, unified and civil.

But what gives YOU the right to determine what is "right and wrong?" Your little book? You've got exactly ZERO more insight into it than anyone else.

If you want to be religious, fine.

If you want to hate things (gays, caffeine, whatever), fine.

But, when you start forcing your narrow view of morality into everyone else's lives, you're crossing a line.

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Noli arrogantium iniurias pati

Who said we were determining right or wrong. We stand by what God says and He is the official determiner of right and wrong. Furthurmore, if you use your God given conscience and reason you see why homosexuality is wrong.

There you go again. Assuming that we hate people. If I only had a quarter for everytime someone used this argument against me. Let's get this one thing straight once and for all: WE DO NOT HATE THEM! We disapprove of their lifestyle, yes, but does disapproving of a lifestyle mean that we hate? I have a cousin who is heavily involved in drugs (another lifestyle that is morally wrong). Do I hate him? No. Disapproving of a lifestyle does not mean hating. I don't believe in hating. It is another choice that is morally wrong.

Woah now. I think you have misunderstood a few things. Are we the ones who started this battle? Who first brought it up? The homosexuals are the ones who came and demanded government sanction of their lifestyle choice. We merely responded to defend marriage and family.

Let's establish this as well. Defining marriage as only being between a man and a woman does NOT mandate any form of behavior whatsoever. All it does is declare what government will recognise (and government is not obligated to recognise lifestyles. It is obligated to recognise individuals but not lifestyles). It does not force anyone to do or not do anything. When homosexuals left their homes and demanded government sanction of their lifestyle, they left the realm of the private for the realm of the public since government is the realm of the public.

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"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, ... That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men,"
-Declaration of Independence

Two truths that many Americans seem to have forgotten:
1. Men are endowed by God with inalienable rights.
2. Government's purpose is to secure man's God-given rights.

You guys are woefully off topic

That's generally what happens when you try to discuss this topic.

Round and round and round and over a mound and up a tree

It's all OUR fault of course

Hey, Eagle? I don't believe in your god. Most of the world doesn't either. So what you believe it may say to you has jack shit to do with me.

And, since the US was established specifically as a secular state, it has nothing to do with the US, either.

As far as the rest of your post goes, well, we've circled that argument 100 times and not gotten anywhere.

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Noli arrogantium iniurias pati

I see no assault on marriage or families taking place by the homos.

Personally, I don't think the government should sanction or recognize marriages of any kind, gay or straight. If it is indeed just a religious thing, why not keep it that way? Why do straight couples need some sort of affirmation from the government? Why not just get it from God?

Actually, that isn't the case. It is the States' that give religious representatives (priests, ministers, rabbis, etc) the power to bind people in marriage... you know, the whole "by the power vested in me by the State of ____________"

Whatever religious implications there are to marriage belong with the house of worship of one's choice and not in the civil arena.

Exactly. So any governments recognizing it need to stop. Otherwise, they are just asking for people who want to marry their pets and people of the same sex.

1. You are. I don't care whether or not you are following the directions of your imaginary God. you are still doing the determining, and wrongly, I might add.
2. Check your dictionary. Marraige is not ONLY defined as being a union between man and woman, BUT AS A UNION BETWEEN ANY TWO OR MORE THINGS, ( which would include a same-sex union.)

prove it.

go on.

prove it that God actually said whatever re homosexuals.

Not what others have written in the bible - but a recording of God, or a video clip of God - actually saying that homosexulity is wrong.

Until you can come up with this, all you are actually saying is "I have been told that God said this" ... which wouldn't stand up as evidence where credible witnesses were required.

I don't know why straight people are such control freaks over gay people. A bunch of straight, fairy tale believing blowhards get to choose whether gays can be protected under the law? It makes no sense. Laws aren't what's keeping straight people everywhere from leaping out of the closet. Gay people are here to stay. Gay couples should have all the same rights. If one of them is dying in the hospital, the spouse ought to be recognized just like any other spouse. Nobody's asking to make churches change, just equal rights and protections under the law. If you're not all peeing in the same pot, than what kind of freedom do you people stand for?

And that's wonderful for you.

For people who do not believe in your god, what he is or is not is of absolutely no consequence...

I've lost count of the number of times that I, because I'm not a christian, have been told that I hate christians AND christianity. Don't give us this blow-hard bullshit about not hating people; christians can be some of the most hateful peopole I've ever encountered...

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Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings...

And you make a huge assumption that everyone believes in YOUR god. Or any god, for that matter. . .

Can't we leave such nonsense out of secular matters?

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"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither breaks my leg, nor picks my pocket."

Thomas Jefferson