Whats next is putting down the saber, opening our own domestic resources which especially in the Alaskan arctic including ANWR, putting Americans to work, collecting the royalties while reducing our usage of middle eastern oil, while investing %50 of said royalties in alternative energies and developing permanent solutions for them. While building the necessary refining capacity to make a real difference domestically. This avoids some of the volatility of our dollar and relieves some of the pinch put on our foreign policy because of the ME. And doing it all with the necessary safeguards to ensure it is done in an enviromentally responsible way.

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Abstinence Education at its finest:

No. Drilling ANWR is shortsighted.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

I was just doing some research and havent been able to figure out how much of a reserve is there. But I think a big part of the issue is that people want to keep areas closed for development if they have this idea through ignorance on the issue that the last pristine enviroment in the arctic is going to be ruined. Which is not the case. But also, the Chukchi Sea, Beaufort Sea, ANWR, and Pt Thompson fields, which to this point are untouched, hold a reserve of at the very minimum of 30 billion barrels of oil, and upwards of 45trillion cubic feet of gas. I dont think the offshore gulf can touch that volume.

Plus as a side note, from what I understand, not any signifigant spillage from those offshore rigs after Katrina hit. I have reservations about offshore development in Alaska due to concerns of cleaning up a spill in ice conditions.

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Abstinence Education at its finest:

PJ, my friend, I generally agree with you, well except about the issues surrounding Alaska. But thats alright. I have seen you express frustration about water that runs down the river of your state's namesake and not being able to meet the general desire of the local interests, due to the wishes of someone else, in a larger poppulation center, who thinks they know what is best for you.
Well the players and the issues might be different. But the game is still the same you see. But for those who want say there isnt enough in ANWR to make a difference, understand that ANWR will double the output of oil from Alaska. How do you think the rest of the country would react if Alaskans said Fuck Off, we are keeping our oil and we shut down the shipments. We would see $150 a barrel within a week.

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Abstinence Education at its finest:

Have some thing against the POOR of America? With the rising cost of gas and diesel who is going to be force to pay in the end? The POOR... will be as they are going to have the hardest time paying for the simple things in life, food, energy, medical. Fuel costs are having an increase on all of them.
You know the small little mom and pop stores and trucking companies? With the energy prices going up they will be the first to go to the way side... and the visitors that you like coming to your state in the summer and winter months? gone.............

ANWR is not the silver bult or the answer to end all answers.. but it could help us over the rough road that we have started on. With out it ,, well that pole to the side of the road would not look good cutting the car in half.

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Fear the Government

The way things are going, $150/barrel oil isn't far away, anyway.




To me, it seems that Alaska could do much better developing and expanding its tourist industry than drilling for more oil that will only have a limited impact for Alaska (and the nation) and only in the short term.

But, I should say that I appreciate your patience; I don't know a whole lot about Alaska, and I appreciate that you don't jump my case just because I say something you disagree with.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

Me? Have something against the poor?

You're kidding, right?


I'm looking from a longer-term perspective. We have to get weaned off of oil. It's going to be unpleasant no matter what, but the longer we wait, the worse it's going to be.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

What you have us do for the poor who have a harder and harder time just pay for the needed items in every day life?

Yes we need to move from oil, Carter should have started us down that line back in 78, but did he? frak no... the ballless wimp............. or even the rest of the Dems that had both house and senate til the mid 90's did they do any thing then? again FRAK NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but if you have the money to pay.... so be it...

Any state the depends on others coming to their state for vacation is going to be hurt big time....

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Fear the Government

Hearts and minds my friend. I convince nearly nobody to my side by slamming them on not knowing anybetter.

As for the price of fuel...
I did type 200 a barrel the first time, but pick a number any 3 digit number because if we shut the pumps down, the entire west coast screams to a halt. Chaos ensues. Literally.

As for the tourist industry, before you talk about expanding it, please come see it for yourself. I generally agree, but there are some issues with tourism. Namely that it is by and large seasonal. But it also puts a pretty big strain on the local communities visited daily by a half dozen cruise ships. That is the SE part, and I dont live there, and probably never would, but it is amazingly pretty. Much like tourists universally, they are merely tolerated because of the money they bring. Otherwise they can be a pain in the ass.(gross generalization of course)
But the tourism industry in my 27 years of life, has exploded. I mean exploded. I could probably make a weekends worth of beer money selling white tshirts with Alaska written in sharpie across the front of it. Its only getting bigger.
The larger issue is really that tourism and resource development in ANWR are not mutually exclusive. ANWR is 800 miles from where the vast majority of the tourists go. ANWR is not the heaven on earth it is often made out to be. I sincerely mean this invitation, next December get to Fairbanks. I will meet you there, we will make the 400mile trip up to ANWR, Id gladly pay the gas money to see the look on your face upon getting up there.

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Abstinence Education at its finest:

But with the price of both gas and diesel getting above 4.00 and 5.00 per gallon there are going to be fewer and fewer tourism dollars going around , not only here in Alaska but any other state that lives on tourism.

Bunz,,, I would like to pass on the trip to ANWR,,, did my time in both Fork Yukon and Fairbanks in the winter and have seen my days of -80......... Can I pass?

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Fear the Government

You sure? I have a buddy up there with a C180 I can get my hands on. You, me and PJ. I am only VFR rated. So we take off at first light and try to make it to Bettles or Anatuvak Pass and spend the night there. Get some fuel and pack a lunch to have on the coastal plane. I have only made the drive. Id like to get some flight hours up there. Then spend the time necessary to fly back in the light.

But be honest with me, is it you dont want to fly with Me? Or not interested in going in a non-pressurized plane when its -60 out? Dont hurt my feelings now.

As a side note, when the fuel barge arrives out west here. We are facing $6.50-7.00 a gallon.

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Abstinence Education at its finest:

An IFR rating would be good to have, but there are few (very few) IFR airfields up that far...
Now what time of year are you thinking of doing this? Because between November and Feb or so there is no light to speak of to do the time frame you speak of.....
While it might be a cool -60 at sea level, it often could be -80 or then again it could be -20 at 3k......
How do you think that I got to Fort Yukon? Walk? Father had a Mual back then.... and we would fly between Fairbanks and Fort Yukon.... 1hour 15minutes..
And about 12 years ago I was able to fly to Lake Clark in a C-47 and back in a 2 seat at just a bit higher than tree top back to the peninsula,,, so I would say flying , not a problem, cold? I live on the kenai peninsula and not Fairbanks for a reason, and it is not the combat fishing....

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Fear the Government

Oh I know, I need to do the 250mile cross country trip and a bunch of paper work. Just a matter of time and money.
I know, late February has 4-5 hours of daylight or so. Have to make good use of them.
Id do my best to find the inversion. Its tough to maintain it up there though. PJ, bring extra socks!
Were you in the Fort to visit ole Don Young? I will say Fort Yukon is awesome in summer. Amazing up there that time of year. But most of the interior is. Winter is flat out depressing.
Sounds like a good ride. I got ride in C-47 when I was like 7-8 years old. Id pay a full fair to fly on one again from DLG-ANC through the Clark pass. I flew a taylorcraft up to Kokhanok on Iliamna 3 years ago and shot up a bunch of caribou. Took snogo back from Nondalton to Dlg, spent the night in Stuyahok. Hell of an adventure and managed 3 caribou in the process. Cost a hell of a lot of money though. I could have made thousands of dollars if I wanted to bootleg through there, but that is not my game.
Yeah. I did 4 years of college in Fairbanks. I have retired from that cold. And combat fishing makes my skin crawl. Thats why I live in the bay my friend. And for those who dont know what combat fishing is...on a not that busy of a day, confluence of the Russian River and the world famous Kenai River.

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Abstinence Education at its finest:

Nah, some futures price spiking but certainly not chaos. California (the largest US oil consuming state at 1.9B/barrels/day for just CA) uses 40% of its own production, 40% foreign oil and 20% Alaskan oil. Both Northern and Southern CA seaports are utilized to receive North Slope and foreign oil, which feed 21 CA refineries who also supply product to the surrounding states including the entire West Coast. All that would happen if Alaska stopped pumping is the CA oil industry increasing futures contracts for more foreign product while using spot markets to bridge the gap (30-days) until contract deliveries were expanded. Alaskans would pay the biggest price due to the large portion of their government spending being derived from oil royalty revenue.

I am of the opinion, that if the private sector needs public sector interference in the markets to justify feasibility of a given venture, then the public sector could consider a similar venture on a not for profit basis. As an example, the US Interior Department could drill, from without a given nature preserve, to extract natural resources, and promote and provide for advances in specific technologies that may be of signal advantage to the Union.

A metric, as a basis for comparison, could be that of the opportunity cost of legislating tax incentives for the private sector versus the public sector doing the work, at cost.