Whenever we discuss the Constitution we are discussing someone's INTERPRETATION of the Constitution, even if we say we are NOT interpreting, that itself constitutes an interpretation.

Also, history is at least as strong, if not stronger , than the Constitution in these matters.

Historically the states have become less and less influential as the years go by. At this point IMO they have no significant further role to play in our develepment as a nation, except maybe as administative conveniences, and should be done away with except as such. We would all save a lot of money

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Alizee Jacotay, the reason god invented hips

I did not purposefully edit, or omit, anything. Good grief, if everybody listed everything verbatim, we would spend more time trying to sift through all the jargon, than actually debating specific points.

With all due respect THF, I realize you are a professor of history, but that doesn't necessarily mean your interpretation, or, "understanding" of the Constitution is any better, or more accurate than mine.

Didn't do you the courtesy of addressing what you actually wrote?! Holy smokes, I responded to your numbered bullet points for crying out loud.

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Democrats, finding new ways to destroy wealth for over 100 years.

I actually agree with the first part of your post, in principal. Shocker, I know.

However, history is no less subject to interpretation than anything else. That is why the Founders laid it out in black and white. They knew people would come along and attempt to twist their meaning in order to serve their own personal agendas.

You are correct, your opinion that states have no further role to play in our development as a nation, is just that, your opinion. And it is dead wrong.

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Democrats, finding new ways to destroy wealth for over 100 years.

No history is not. The constitution makes it clear that the powers not given to the federal government are granted to the states. No amount of time or historical context will change that.

So you advocate complete abolition of the states and vesting all power into the federal government? I sure hope you're joking on this because such an idea is extremely dangerous and scary.

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"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, ... That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men,"
-Declaration of Independence

Two truths that many Americans seem to have forgotten:
1. Men are endowed by God with inalienable rights.
2. Government's purpose is to secure man's God-given rights.

It would be a more efficient model to eliminate State boundaries and governments and be homogenized into one Federal Government. It would save money for sure, but would it save freedom? As I would say we could all agree, isn't the idea of protecting Freedom an important issue? I think we could all agree on that. I don't see how dropping the identity of the States would help to do that.

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You do realize you are arguing with a mindless vegetable, don't you?

The push toward socialism, and perhaps beyond, has absolutely nothing to do with freedom. So no, I don't think we can all agree on that. And that is very unfortunate, and as Eagle88 stated, it is also very dangerous.

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Democrats, finding new ways to destroy wealth for over 100 years.

Next itll be lets abolish individual rights and vest all power into the federal govt.

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"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his father has acquired too much, in order to spare to others who (or whose fathers) have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, "to guarantee to everyone a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."

-Thomas Jefferson

Would be nice but probably not. The money that would have gone to the states would still end up being needed (and probably even more) for the Federal level to keep up with what the States would leave behind.

I mean, I understand what you are saying and it sounds like it should work that way... just not sure I agree that the states have lost enough influence making them totally useless and that somehow in the end it would all cost us less in the hands of the Federal level. Call it my lack of faith at the federal level of government at taking anything on that was in the hands of someone else and somehow it being less costly to the rest of us.

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- Frustrated Independent

Rome went in this direction as well. The power of the Senate slowly decressed until all power was place on one person, the Emperor. The line of reasoning you are suggesting would eliminate 1/3 of our checks and balances. There would be no purpose for Congress at that time. The problem with putting all the power in a central location is every glove does not fit every hand. That's why federal programs tend to be horrible. They just don't work in all situations. The local governments know much more of what they need then the federal government.

It's also a bogus concept that it would cost less money. The fed would have to grow it's government to make up for all the lost legislators from the states. You also have a lot more hands touching the money when it goes up to the fed. The thousands of people that are needed to process resources all have a paycheck that they collect. The fact that states have to earmark bills to get their own money back is ridiculous and wasteful. By the time it gets back to them, how many cents on the dollar has already been lost? If the fed would just butt out and keep their greedy hands away from it in the first place the states would have a lot more money and wouldn't have to earmark everything. The processing would be much cheaper and less labor intensive. The cheapest way for us to run is to kick the fed out of everything they are involved in and make them do things that are only directly applicable to their job. Making sure we are safe and our liberties aren't being infringed on.

The day your dreamworld of the states being abolished is the day the US ends and gets torn apart and a bunch of little countries are formed.

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A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
- George Bernard Shaw

actually i'm pretty sure that's exactly what it means.

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"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine

Or it means he's a revisionist historian. We have plenty of those. Many of our history books in school are written by them. Who invented the lightbulb? Edison? I bet that's what you learned in school.

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A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
- George Bernard Shaw

no i'm pretty sure being a professor in a subject is more qualified to talk about that subject than someone who has had little to no education on that subject.

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"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine

And what, pray tell, would lead you to that conclusion?

How would you know what my education is?

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Democrats, finding new ways to destroy wealth for over 100 years.

Maybe its European history.

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"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his father has acquired too much, in order to spare to others who (or whose fathers) have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, "to guarantee to everyone a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."

-Thomas Jefferson

As usual you are full of theories. (Bettcha thought I was going to say something else.)

Representatives are DEFACTO representatives, not only of their STATE, but their particular REGION of their state.

One tactic I use in choosing a representative with all other things being equal is to see if he is from my region of the state. Because they do things for their own regions. How many ways can you spell p-o-r-k? I choose the one from my state and region.



Forester, save your elephant shit. The more you smear the worse you smell.

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