Thread: Student Loan Whitehouse Scam

Originally Posted by USCitizen

I'll tell you how to solve this problem.
Wall Street constantly tells the BLS that our economy is on the verge of a global explosion of untold growth and prosperity for all.
The universities have Wall Street donors who sit there and say, "Wow! These kids are gonna pay through the nose for an advanced edjikashun because there's a future of roses waiting for them out there!".
The donor, is, of course, at the same time contributing to Reps to make sure as few of these "kids" get jobs as possible.
And that's why all the professors I personally know at HOFSTRA, Nassau Community College, Yeshiva University, Columbia and NYU are all sitting around watching their kids not getting interviews and saying, "WTF is going on here?".
We are in a cycle of unfettered capitalism.

Someone tell the BLS to wake up and stop blindly repeating the lies that Bill Gates, etc are telling them.
But why should the BLS do that when they have lifetime jobs, health benefits and a pretty darned good pension waiting for them?

I really do not follow here . . . mainly because I am not sure what BLS stands for.

Originally Posted by SupPackFan

I really do not follow here . . . mainly because I am not sure what BLS stands for.

Sorry about that.
Bureau of Labor Statistics.
A federal department that usually lags behind the actual economy by 3 years that surveys and reports on industry technical and personnel requirements.
They will, for example, report that private industry requires 250,000 software developers, 35,000 chemists, etc...
What they DON'T report, and perhaps have no knowledge of, is the mechanism by which those requirements will be made.
Off-Shoring, Business-Visas, promotion / internal training.
Even when the BLS finally finds out the facts, it probably isn't their responsibility to report such information.
Thus, schools advertise, students apply and take out loans.

It's always fun to see the same two or three posters out for a Sunday paint job, using the broadest brushes they can wield. "College professors never go to class." "College professors only do 1% of the work their private counterparts do."

Is this how high school dropouts think?

Originally Posted by Disillusioned_1

Most engineering and science professors would earn approximately twice as much in private industry than they do as a professor. I'm not sure how you can call that 'excessive tuition for high paid professors who never attend class'.

It costs as much to send a young child an elementary Montessori school as it does to pay for college tuition here. College tuition is still quite cheap, however since it typically occurs at the point in life when someone has no savings and no income, its hard to make those tuition payments without loans (assuming the parents didn't save on behalf of their child).

The reason tuition has gone up is because Federal grants and research money is disappearing/non-existent, the burden fell more and more to the states starting about 10 years ago, and now states are yanking funds as well. To make ends meet, universities have no choice but to raise tuition. Cutting programs is often self-defeating because then nobody wants to attend a university that doesn't offer a wide area of capability. Also, healthcare costs for employees is just as big of a factor for universities as it is for private industry.

The comparison you are making is a little flawed. You are essentially comparing the highest paid private sector engineers with the average engineering professor. I am an Industrial Engineer and run my own business and earning much less than my former professors make at the University of Minnesota. In fact, many of the recently graduated Engineers working for small businesses in this area start around $70K at most. That is the lowest end for university professors. Sure there is greater potential in the private sector. Engineers working for 20+ years in the same field become extremely valuable. The more unique the field, the more valuable they are. But with that value comes risk. We can be invented out of a job at any given time. There is no long term guarentees, and certainly no such thing as tenure.

By the way, most college professors are supplementing their income through research grants. I remember my Deform Body Mechanics professor telling us - on the one day per week he showed up to class - about the ongoing research projects he was working on. 3 month projects paying $15K (1990) and he would take on two per school year - on university time while his assistants handled his classwork. Not a bad gig!
COLLEGE-COSTS.jpg

Originally Posted by Agnostick

It's always fun to see the same two or three posters out for a Sunday paint job, using the broadest brushes they can wield. "College professors never go to class." "College professors only do 1% of the work their private counterparts do."

Is this how high school dropouts think?

Many corporations hire academics simply to post them on their brag page.
OTOH, most academics I have conversations with have been reading the same text books for years, publish papers based on the work they have their students do for them and go to dinners to laud their donors and each other.
On the other hand, all Bill Gates, Larry Ellison and Meg Whitman do is tell Congress that all Americans are stupid and lazy.
So you're correct, nothing ever changes and I admit such to you.

Originally Posted by SupPackFan

In fact, many of the recently graduated Engineers working for small businesses in this area start around $70K at most.

This is pretty much for real if you're lucky enough to get a job.

nuff said

I'm really glad Mr, Bone-head feels for students and that fact that 50% of graduates can't find jobs.
But there's no solution?
How about pulling out of the WTO, Mr. Boner-Head?
What a bullcrap artist.
They're all FOS.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

I'm really glad Mr, Bone-head feels for students and that fact that 50% of graduates can't find jobs.
But there's no solution?
How about pulling out of the WTO, Mr. Boner-Head?
What a bullcrap artist.
They're all FOS.

What specifically would be gained by pulling out of the WTO? I have never heard a valid reason expressed. Maybe you have one.

Originally Posted by dnsmith

What specifically would be gained by pulling out of the WTO? I have never heard a valid reason expressed. Maybe you have one.

You know how Obama talks about rewarding MNCs for coming back to the US?
It's all talk.
The WTO will not allow major MNCs from ANY nation to pull out of another nation without THEIR permission because it will cause economic turbulence.
Most legislation that goes through the House must pass WTO muster before the House is allowed to approve it due to impact on WTO nations.
And that includes pulling out of China, a non-WTO nation, because just about every other WTO nation will be affected by ANYTHING that effects China.

Originally Posted by SupPackFan

The comparison you are making is a little flawed. You are essentially comparing the highest paid private sector engineers with the average engineering professor. I am an Industrial Engineer and run my own business and earning much less than my former professors make at the University of Minnesota. In fact, many of the recently graduated Engineers working for small businesses in this area start around $70K at most. That is the lowest end for university professors. Sure there is greater potential in the private sector. Engineers working for 20+ years in the same field become extremely valuable. The more unique the field, the more valuable they are. But with that value comes risk. We can be invented out of a job at any given time. There is no long term guarentees, and certainly no such thing as tenure.

By the way, most college professors are supplementing their income through research grants. I remember my Deform Body Mechanics professor telling us - on the one day per week he showed up to class - about the ongoing research projects he was working on. 3 month projects paying $15K (1990) and he would take on two per school year - on university time while his assistants handled his classwork. Not a bad gig!

It sounds like you're making the mistake of comparing Bachelor of Science (or Engineering) degrees with PhD's? A physics professor has a PhD, which means starting salary at most companies is at least $100k, and probably more like $120k. Most Physics professors are in the $50-100k range (a few of the extremely good ones can pull down $140k but they are extremely good and extremely rare). Furthermore, to get Tenure a professor has to work SIGNIFICANTLY harder than the average PhD in industry (some people in industry work just as hard), between publishing, managing graduate students, teaching classes, getting a research program going, and getting research grants ... all at the same time continuously for 5-7 years. Then when its all said and done the proficient ones get tenure and perhaps pull down $80k average, while their industry counterparts are $150k+.

http://www.aip.org/statistics/trends...y/salary06.htm

AIP society members with PhDs, not including postdoctorates, reported a median annual salary of $97,700 in 2006, up from $90,000 in 2004.
Respondents with PhDs working in hospitals or medical services again reported the highest median salary at $135,000. The lowest median salary was reported by society members working in 4-year colleges with 9-10 month contracts, at $60,000.
Salaries along the coasts continue to be the highest. The Pacific states lead the way with the highest salaries range ($76,500 to $124,000), while the West North Central reported the lowest ($55,000 to $100,000).
Society members with PhDs working in industry reported a median salary of $110,000 in 2006. The median salary of PhDs in industry was $104,000 in 2004.
Within the first two years since earning their PhDs, respondents on university postdoctoral appointments reported typical salaries ranging from $36,000 to $43,000.
Society members reported unemployment at a rate (1.7%) that remained level within the past few years.

Originally Posted by Forplay

And they would have to work a 100 times harder.

Spoken like someone who has absolutely no idea what a PhD in industry OR academia does.

This also puts it into perspective (from PhDcomics):