well, this is interesting....nice to see someone carrying the ball.



Response to Feminists on the Violent Oppression of Women in Islam
By David Horowitz and Robert Spencer
| Thursday, January 24, 2008

The David Horowitz Freedom Center has succeeded in putting the feminists and Islamists on the defensive. As David Horowitz and Robert Spencer note in the article below, the DHFC's exposure of the feminist movement's lack of attention to women's rights in the Muslim world has caused many of the movement's most prominent activists to sign a letter protesting that they originated concern for Muslim women. The letter, drafted by feminist writer Katha Pollitt, has been signed by such notables as:

Susan Faludi, the author of Backlash: The Undeclared War Against Women, which argues conservatives are trying to suppress American womyn, and The Terror Dream: Fear and Fantasy in Post-9/11 America, which claims terrorism provided a handy excuse for the American Right to begin binding women's feet again;

Julianne Malveaux, who expressed her feelings about Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas on PBS' To the Contrary, "I hope his wife feeds him lots of eggs and butter and he dies early like many black men do, of heart disease"

Jennifer Baumgardner, a Nation writer whose idea of fighting female oppression is staging productions of The Vagina Monologues;
Dana Goldstein, an employee of the Soros-funded Center for American Progress and a writing fellow at the Soros-funded The American Prospect; and More than 700 more leftists.

The letter spread quickly, beginning on the website of the far-Left's flagship publication, The Nation. (The Nation's piece was also picked up by Yahoo News). Soon, it had been posted on Mother Jones, the Islamic Forum, the University of Maine, and many other sites -- including that of a woman named Heart who is running for president. Not all are pleased; at least one insists U.S. immigration laws and Israeli treatment of Palestinians are a more direct affront to women's rights than clitorectomies. (She asks, "Does Ms. Pollitt think that 'Muslim countries' are particularly hostile to women’s rights for some reason?") Nonetheless, the very fact that the Left, so long silent about the crimes countenanced by its Islamic partners in the antiwar movement, now feels that it must mount a rousing defense is a vindication of our efforts. -- The Editors.


This week, seven hundred feminists signed an Open Letter complaining that “columnists and opinion writers from The Weekly Standard to the Washington Post to Slate have recently accused American feminists of focusing obsessively on minor or even nonexistent injustices in the United States while ignoring atrocities against women in other countries, especially the Muslim world.”


We recognize this Open Letter as a delayed response to the Freedom Center’s Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week, which protested the silence of feminists over the “Oppression of Women in Islam” on campuses all over the country last fall, organized sit-ins at a dozen Women’s Studies Departments to protest the absence of courses and department-sponsored events confronting the issue, and made this a matter of national discussion and debate. This is why the signers of the Open Letter complain that “‘Women’s rights are human rights’ was not a slogan dreamed up by David Horowitz or Christina Hoff Sommers,” two of our speakers for Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week. (We never claimed it was.)


The signers of this Letter claim that, “contrary to the accusations of pundits,” they support Muslim feminists in “their struggle against female genital mutilation, ‘honor’ murder, forced marriage, child marriage, compulsory Islamic dress codes, the criminalization of sex outside marriage, brutal punishments like lashing and stoning, family laws that favor men and that place adult women under the legal power of fathers, brothers, and husbands, and laws that discount legal testimony made by women.”


Well, we welcome these avowals of support for the rights of Muslim women. However, forgive us for doubting their sincerity. As one of us pointed out in a speech given at the University of Wisconsin during Islamo-Fascism Week:

“One of our concerns … is the failure of the Women’s Studies Movement to educate students about these atrocities. Our researchers looked at more than 600 Women’s Studies programs on fifteen American campuses, which focus on the unequal treatment of women in society. But they were unable to locate a single class which focuses on the oppression of women under Islamic law.”

What was true last October is still true today. As recently as December 10, a Muslim teenager was strangled by her father for refusing to wear a hijab without a protest from the American feminist movement. And that is only one of many crimes committed in the name of Islam against Muslim women over which the feminist movement continues to be silent.


On New Year’s Day, Amina Said, 18, and her sister Sarah, 17, were shot dead in Irving, Texas. Police are searching for their father, Yaser Abdel Said, on a warrant for capital murder. The girls’ great aunt, Gail Gartrell, told reporters, “This was an honor killing.” Apparently Yaser Said murdered his daughters because they had non-Muslim boyfriends.


The signers of the Open Letter say that they are against honor killing. Here is an honor killing in the United States. Where are these feminists on this issue? Why are they not supporting the hunt for Amina’s and Sarah’s killers and organizing a campaign in the Muslim community to stop such practices?


On Sunday, January 20, the New York Times published an article, “A Cutting Tradition,” which falsely described female genital mutilation practiced under Islamic law as “circumcision” and portrayed it in a generally positive light, and even warned against “blindly judging those who practice it.” The article made no mention of the physical effects of this barbaric practice, which affects 140 million Muslim girls who have their genitals sliced off yearly, and in some 15 million cases their vaginal tract sewn up. These effects, as enumerated by the British Medical Journal in 1993, are “Immediate physical complications include severe pain, shock, infection, bleeding, acute urinary infection, tetanus, and death. Long-term problems include chronic pain, difficulties with micturition and menstruation, pelvic infection leading to infertility, and prolonged and obstructed labor during childbirth.”


Where is the feminist outrage over the New York Times article? Where are the feminist demonstrations against this practice? Where are the campus teach-ins? Where are the candlelight parades? What Muslim organizations have been confronted for their complicity in this assault on female Muslim children? This is a horrific crime against the female gender -- global in extent -- and yet one would be hard-pressed to identify a single public event, protest or march organized by feminists to oppose it.


The Open Letter mentions the feminist “V-Day” organized to protest violence against women. We challenge the signers of this letter to identify the speeches given during “V-Day” that protested female genital mutilation in the Islamic world. We challenge them to identify the Vagina Monologue of Islamic misogyny.


We are encouraged by the fact that these American feminists feel the need to respond to our challenge over their silence as a movement on violence against Muslim women and to assert their opposition to these barbaric practices. We challenge them now to put actions behind their words.


Join us in sponsoring a campus tour on the Oppression of Women in Islam with speakers such as Nonie Darwish, Wafa Sultan and Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Form academic committees to provide curricula on these subjects in Women’s Studies courses. Devote a major segment of your V-Day demonstrations to the plight of Muslim women. Join us during Islamo-Fascism Week II this spring in appealing to campus Muslim organizations to condemn these practices.


Then we’ll know you’re serious.

__________________
Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.

H. L. Mencken


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

Recently, I became convinced that I have been sold out by most of the feminist organizations in favor of partisanship - re. USA policies are worse on women's rights, blah, blah, blah. I am not pleased. Is there a link for David Horowitz and his article? He seems to be my type of feminist.

__________________
I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Feminist...pheh.
I am all for equal rights, I am never for paybacks for previous actions of those before me, nor "leveling the playing field" by enacting reverse prejudice practices.

I am for a true level field.
No quotas
No "special" rights (as in the complete BULLSHIT "woman owned business" privileges)
No hiring curves

Nada...true equal opportunity for everyone

To the OP.....sorry but many are confused that these loons care about equality, they care about remaining relevant to those that can benefit them the most.

here ya go

FrontPage Magazine

__________________
Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.

H. L. Mencken


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

Ah, David Horowitz of academic freedom. I like him.

__________________
I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

OK - so this is basically an article in which Horowitz gets the opportunity to bash both Muslims - and feminists.

fantastic.

My experience in working with issues around the oppression of women in non western countries is that feminists are very much a part of that fight. My experience is that Muslim women are also part of the fight to ensure women are safe in their homes, as well as elsewhere. Often in the west they are more free to play an active role in preventing family violence - because they have more support from our legal system.

THIS is a sad indictment on many parts of the Muslim world - however tolerance of violence against women is by no means unique to the Islamic world.

It was a Muslim women's association I worked with in organising programmes on domestic violence. These women no more supported the notion of honour killing than anyone here - in fact I daresay less than some white western males here on USPO may do.

There are many issues for women in the west that are still not resolved - and these should not be ignored.

Feminists DO need to look to women in their own countries if they are to have any credence. But this includes speaking out on the apalling levels of violence against ALL women - not just Muslim women. The apallingly high levels of intimate homicide in the US (where the proportion of white male perpetrators is increasing) is at least of as much concern as the deaths of young Muslim women murdered by their fathers.

If violence against women, or about Muslim women in general, is a concern to you - then focus on that rather than just jumping up and down about it AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO BASH MUSLIMS.

Otherwise I am afraid the evidence is that you don't give a flying fuck about women being victims of violence.

But to come back to women in Islam - Horowitz doesn't appear to be very well informed, and could probably benefit by doing a little research.

Is he, for example, aware that the 1958 personal statute laws of Iraq gave women better rights there than they had in many western countries at that time? that the invasion of Iraq - where the position of women was far better than that of many of our Muslim Allies - such as Saudi Arabia - set women backwards?

Can he explain why my CHRISTIAN friend's daughters must now wear hijab in Baghdad - but were never required to before at any time under Saddam's reign?

I guess not.

Is he aware at all of Islamic feminism? It may help him to do a little research on that too - did he look at what women like Amina Wadud have to say about women in Islam?

has he ever looked at what a Muslim woman has had to say about 'honour killings?'

I guess not.

Its also interesting the word "clitorectomies" is mentioned - as if this is about Islam.

How many fucking threads have I discussed this topic on? well actually - FGM - which covers both clitorectomy AND infibulation - which is far more widely practised and is far more debilitating and dangerous.

FGM is NOT a Muslim issue - yes in some Muslim communities it has been adopted - but it is an ancient practise that predates Islam, is common among many christian groups (including both mainstream christian and copitic christians) and is not performed at all in the majority of Muslim countries.

Ignorance about Islam - and feminism most likely as well - is the hallmark of Horowitz's article.

But I guess its what his preferred audience of cheerleaders want to read.

It has nothing to do with cheerleading. One can rant all they want and try to call this "Muslim bashing" (seems common for some to do that - go figure). The fact remains that NOW has been relatively silent on issues in the Mideast and elsewhere. It is clearly apparent that NOW does not have the charter they claim.

But sure, try to label it just an opportunity to bash Muslims. That works when one's not paying attention.

__________________
I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Horowitz's ignorance re FGM is on two counts:

one - he seems to think clitorectomy and infibulation are interchangeable.

I don't know the original article he was quoting which discussed clitorectomy. This practice - which occurs among some Malaysian (notably Christmas Island) communities is outlawed in this country. And for good reason. Although not much more risky than male circumcision under similar conditions it is a violation of a woman's body, and denies her the opportunity to experience normal sexual stimulation.

It is a violation of women's rights.

It is not widespread among the Muslim community in Malaysia, and doesn't occur in neighbouring Indonesia. Those who do practise it are however Muslims.

I would not argue that we should be 'tolerant' of this practice, and fully support the law which has penalties of up to a 20 year prison sentence.

However, I think confusing it with infibulation only demonstrates ignorance. Horowitz seemed to think clitorectomy contributed to all the major health issues associated with infibulation. Alone, it doesn't. Infibulation is far more invasive, and the health consequences can be extreme.

Interestingly, it is on the rise in some west African nations again. Often extended periods of conflict (whether they occur in Muslim or non Muslim countries) set women's rights back decades. The reason this didn't happen in our countries after the second world war was due to factors that do not apply in places like Sierra Leone, Liberia and other African nations. Usually these factors are more related to economics - in fact - in SL - one of the reasons FGM is on the rise is because it earns income for poor families. Grandmothers - responsible for war orphans - bring out their old skills and also train up their granddaughters.

If we REALLY wanted to do something about FGM in these countries we would be lobbying our politicians for more aid to war torn African nations, rather than bitching about feminists and Muslims.

The second point demonstrating Horowitz's ignorance on FGM is his confusion of FGM with Islam. It is well known to be practised by non Muslim communities as well and predates Islam. It is not practised AT ALL in most of the Muslim world. His lapse here either demonstrates ignorance - or a bias against Islam.

It is examples such as these that make it seem inevitable that those agreeing with Horowitz, rather than recognizing they don't actually know enough about the subject to make informed comment, are merely cheerleaders for ignorance.

As an aside - clitorectomy has in the past (late 19th early 20th C) been practised in the US as a 'medical' solution to certain behaviours in young women.

Its amazing what can be justified - anywhere in the world - isn't it?

and so there is no debate on this?

even Si Modo acknowledges her ignorance in this field?