You always see and hear these politicians talking about "American Values" this and that, but do we really know what they are? Have they changed over the years? If so, what were they then and what are they now? Also, why did they change? And, if they've always been the same then what are they anyway?

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Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand.
Cardinal de Retz

"My mother would have said that a woman voting for John McCain
is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders." - Cecile Richards, TX

Baseball - Go Nats.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

I have heard this my whole life, but every time someone is pinned down and states something like "Freedom!" or something similar, we invariably, as a society, go out of our way to prove them wrong.

'Twas ever thus.

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All things serve The Beam

wow good to see a duck fan on here......hope we have a good year !!

My heart is still broken by what happened to Dixon last year.

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All things serve The Beam

killed me , we were on fire!!!!!!!! I hope this year we give it a go as of now all i hear is the usuall USC but i hope this year we keep it together and take the title !!!!!!!!!

Beat 'em last year, hopefully again this year.

Remember... you can't spell 'suck' with usc.

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All things serve The Beam

I think that's a good question, but whenever something like this comes up, I always have to ask what the phrase means. Are we talking about the values America was founded upon? About the values we currently have? About the values we should strive to uphold? Furthermore, does the term "American values" apply to values of all citizens or just some? Maybe it doesn't apply to the citizens at all. Maybe it applies to the government and its policies.

I think a phrase like "American values" should really only be applied to the policies and direction of the government. It's not something I've given a lot of thought to, so I'm open to other definitions, but I don't see how else it can be applied in a satisfactory way.

Of course, I haven't addressed what I think the values of the government should be, so I guess I'll leave that for a later post if there's a general agreement of what we're talking about.

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"Some years ago I had a sobering realization about women, which was that there are just too many nice ones. One simply can't fall in love with, sleep with, or marry all the nice women...One of the saddening facts of life is that there is always going to be a delightful woman somewhere who, for whatever accident of timing or attraction, simply slips by and recedes to return only in a dream."
-Larry McMurtry in Roads

That's the thing. Nobody knows, at least nobody REALLY knows. Its really just another buzzword aka scare tactic used predominantly by the Right Wingers. Its purpose is to frighten the voters into thinking that the opponent is anti-American and therefore should NEVER under ANY circumstances be voted into whatever office for that reason alone.

The beauty of it is, the term can mean anything to anyone, so once they hear "American Values" they apply whatever they feel are valuable to them, which is an emotional reaction. And you know if one candidate is painted as NOT having these "American Values" then the other one must be embodiment of them.

Notice how not a single soul on this board, out of all these very smart and very intelligent posters could answer it...its really vague. Yet, we allow certain politicians to continually scare us with the term.

Food for thought.

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Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand.
Cardinal de Retz

"My mother would have said that a woman voting for John McCain
is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders." - Cecile Richards, TX

What American values are is subjective for the most part. Although there are some values that clearly are not American, and that's usually where candidates try to draw a contrast with each other.

Sounds very nice, but also very vague.

What are these "American Values" these people are speaking of? Can we get at least three before this thread dies out?

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Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand.
Cardinal de Retz

"My mother would have said that a woman voting for John McCain
is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders." - Cecile Richards, TX

Well, love of country is one. Everyone thinks they love their country of course, but sometimes a candidate seems to be less willing to defend America's reputation than others. When a candidate basically says our enemies are right about America, or hints at it, then that exposes him to attack on that ground.

Another is egalitarianism. Although America has patricians just like any other country, most Americans, even rich Americans tend to behave like regular folks, whereas in other countries they put on airs of sophistication and being better than the unwashed masses. A rich politician who seems to be an effete rich guy is often tagged as not being in touch with American values of egalitarianism.

So you want a third? Sigh, I'll need time to think. This is a really hard subject with no easy answers and it's not the kind of thing you can prove with data.

That's pretty weak. I mean, every country, nation, heck even little island love their country very much. That can simply be stated as patriotic, not unique to America or Americans.

Oh boy...now you've done it. I've done you the favor of actually looking up and posting the Webster's definition of that word...

Main Entry: egal·i·tar·i·an·ism
Pronunciation: \-ē-ə-ˌni-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1905

1 : a belief in human equality especially with respect to social, political, and economic rights and privileges
2 : a social philosophy advocating the removal of inequalities among people

Obama has been a leading proponent for equal rights and justice as is evident by his record of being a community leader and activist in his own right concerning these very issues. In fact, his very running for office and reaching this level is a living embodiment of the word. You've let your political leaning cloud your mind and your judgment, yet again, my good fellow. Note how you couldn't even stop yourself from sticking to strictly the issues and refraining from emotional knee-jerk reactions like name-calling...effete?



So your first two barely passed, in fact miserably failed to hit the mark and you couldn't even come up with a third. So what does that tell you?

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Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand.
Cardinal de Retz

"My mother would have said that a woman voting for John McCain
is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders." - Cecile Richards, TX

That's pretty weak. I mean, every country, nation, heck even little island love their country very much. That can simply be stated as patriotic, not unique to America or Americans

Here's what Daniel Patrick Moynihan said about Jimmy carter:

"Unable to distinguish friend from foe, he has adopted our enemies' view of the world." It was quite true. Carter more often than not takes the side of our enemies in disputes with the US or US allies. He is the original "blame America firster".

And of course this is all kinda weak. It's all based on impressions and subjective values.

Obama has been a leading proponent for equal rights and justice as is evident by his record of being a community leader and activist in his own right concerning these very issues. In fact, his very running for office and reaching this level is a living embodiment of the word. You've let your political leaning cloud your mind and your judgment, yet again, my good fellow. Note how you couldn't even stop yourself from sticking to strictly the issues and refraining from emotional knee-jerk reactions like name-calling...effete?


Words evolve. The version of egalitarianism I was speaking of was the idea that we're all of equal worth regardless of the size of our bank account. Most Americans, even wealthy Americans, tend to accept that. Some wealthy Americans and especially wealthy foreigners, tend to think they are better than everyone else, or at least more cultured and smarter.

The modern definition doesn't make much sense to me, as it implies that we can't be of equal moral worth unless we have equal amounts of wealth.

But I won't argue with you about what egalitarianism means, you have the dictionary. I just wanted to explain what I meant. This one I feel I'm on a little firmer ground. The accusation that a candidate is rich and out of touch and effete is an old and effective one. And sometimes it's even justified. Such as Bush 41 not knowing how to use a grocery scanner or Kerry not having any idea what was on the Wendy's menu.

So your first two barely passed, in fact miserably failed to hit the mark and you couldn't even come up with a third. So what does that tell you?

You know the attack works, I'm just trying to grasp for a theory about why the attack works.

Somehow the Right Wingers have managed to concoct this story that Obama is an elitist, as if HE thinks he's somehow better than anybody else, nothing can be further from the truth. Obama is as common as they come, from a broken home, single hard-working mom, busting her ass to provide for him. Working his way to college and attaining some level of success...the ultimate American Hardwork story...this is what they've managed to paint as elitism. Not George Bush, who was born with a silver spoon, practically spoon-fed everything he has on a silver platter, never having to earn anything or even account for anything in his entire life. WoW!!! Kudos to the Right Wing Spinmeisters.

They've managed to paint the word "elite" as a bad word, even though its commonly used as badge in many other areas. Wouldn't you want your leader to be an elite...to be the best, brightest and strongest at what he or she does? Do you really want your leaders to be "regular guys and gals" that you could have a beer with? Really?

Read Elitism is not a dirty word - Los Angeles Times for more.

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Nothing sways the stupid more than arguments they can't understand.
Cardinal de Retz

"My mother would have said that a woman voting for John McCain
is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders." - Cecile Richards, TX