Thread: Israelis to play Wagner in Bayreuth

oversensitivity at its height, i think.

there was episode of "Curb Your Enthusiasm" awhile back where larry is walking down the street humming a tune by Wagner and he gets accosted by a fellow jew who angrily exclaims "You have forgotten your Judaism!" I think this situation, like the one on the show, is another case of people who need to just get over it and accept the music for what it is: beautiful music.

edit: here's the vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nS66IvbvcI

edit edit: lol and later in the episode when he hires an orchestra to play wagner on the guy's front lawn as revenge: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl3Am...eature=related

Originally Posted by bg85

oversensitivity at its height, i think.

there was episode of "Curb Your Enthusiasm" awhile back where larry is walking down the street humming a tune by Wagner and he gets accosted by a fellow jew who angrily exclaims "You have forgotten your Judaism!" I think this situation, like the one on the show, is another case of people who need to just get over it and accept the music for what it is: beautiful music.

edit: here's the vid YouTube - Curb Your Enthusiasm Wagner

edit edit: lol and later in the episode when he hires an orchestra to play wagner on the guy's front lawn as revenge: YouTube - Larry David conducts Wagner

Well, actually israeli musicians performing Wagners music in his former home on the same opera festival that also Hitler attended should be a sort of symbolic victory/ and /or irony that deserves pride and not criticism. Anyway, art needs to be separated from the artist. To like Wagners music does not mean to subscribe to his thoughts

i most definitely agree.

Originally Posted by Voland

Richard Wagner was certainly a staunch nationalist, antisemite and racist, but also one of the most influential composers of the 19th century, whose operas, like the "Flying Dutchman", are beeing played in many countries. Richard Wagner was also Hitlers declared favourite composer though and his music provided a kind of soundtrack for the Nazi years when it was for example played at official events, Nazi parades etc. and therefore it is unofficially banned in Israel. Now the israeli chamber orchestra will travel to Wagners former home in Bayreuth/ Bavaria to perform Wagners music in a surprising premiere at the opera festival held there. But the angry reactions in Israel have surprised many and even caused Wagners great-granddaughter to cancel a trip to Israel to promote the concert...........


Hugo Junkers ? Wikipedia

I don't think you're aiding Wagner's case by linking to the founder of the company that built the Stuka
Maybe this is the article you meant to link to:
Israel Chamber Orchestra Conductor: 'The Decision To Play Wagner in Bayreuth Was Unanimous' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

I've always loved Wagner's music. It made no difference to me when I found out what kind of person he was. It doesn't change the music. Kudos to this Israelian orchestra for feeling the same way.

Originally Posted by WoI

I don't think you're aiding Wagner's case by linking to the founder of the company that built the Stuka
Maybe this is the article you meant to link to:
Israel Chamber Orchestra Conductor: 'The Decision To Play Wagner in Bayreuth Was Unanimous' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

I've always loved Wagner's music. It made no difference to me when I found out what kind of person he was. It doesn't change the music. Kudos to this Israelian orchestra for feeling the same way.

Thanks, WoI, sorry for the link error

Ritt der Walküre is certainly an impressive piece, even though quite bombastic.

Wagner was about as good a musician as Walt Disney was a painter or Ludwig of Bavaria was an architect. (and no, I'm not saying Walt Disney was crazy or an anti-Semite) That is to say he was competent, and one HELL of a better promoter of his own stuff than he was an original artist.

If he'd only been born in the 60's you could get some manager to pump him full of drugs and he'd have made about a billion before he od'ed around the age of 30. The 19th century, unfortunately, didn't know how to deal with musicians who are more batshit crazy than talented. He hated Jews because he owed them (and everyone else) lots of money, it's about that simple, just like Wagner, and his music.

To this day the best criticism of him ever done is this. It takes one nut to really nail another.

I don't like Wagner. I'd have no problem with never hearing Wagner again.

Originally Posted by John Drake

Wagner was about as good a musician as Walt Disney was a painter or Ludwig of Bavaria was an architect. (and no, I'm not saying Walt Disney was crazy or an anti-Semite) That is to say he was competent, and one HELL of a better promoter of his own stuff than he was an original artist.

If he'd only been born in the 60's you could get some manager to pump him full of drugs and he'd have made about a billion before he od'ed around the age of 30. The 19th century, unfortunately, didn't know how to deal with musicians who are more batshit crazy than talented. He hated Jews because he owed them (and everyone else) lots of money, it's about that simple, just like Wagner, and his music.

To this day the best criticism of him ever done is this. It takes one nut to really nail another.

The Strausses made a pretty good fortune and as waltz kings they were pretty much of the equivalent of modern pop stars. While they did not enjoy global fame, they still did so within Europe. I don't know but weren't there others with similar (popular) success as well?

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

The Strausses made a pretty good fortune and as waltz kings they were pretty much of the equivalent of modern pop stars. While they did not enjoy global fame, they still did so within Europe. I don't know but weren't there others with similar (popular) success as well?

The problem with being a classical musician up until about 1950 is that your real art is ephemeral and expensive. Since music couldn't be recorded with any real fidelity until that time then you are dependent on very expensive help, that is, other musicians, actors, dramatists etc., to get your work before an audience.

Think if George Lucas had to actually stage Star Wars whole for each and every performance, that was the problem most symphonic and opera composers faced; despite this, many did succeed at making a very good living out of it. Wagner did not.

Originally Posted by John Drake

Think if George Lucas had to actually stage Star Wars whole for each and every performance, that was the problem most symphonic and opera composers faced; despite this, many did succeed at making a very good living out of it. Wagner did not.

Your last sentence is clearly wrong. Wagner made a fortune :

Wahnfried - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Voland

Your last sentence is clearly wrong. Wagner made a fortune :

Wahnfried - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, but he spent a bigger fortune to do it, at least that was my understanding, or maybe he just didn't like paying money back. I have read that he fled creditors most of his life.

Originally Posted by John Drake

The problem with being a classical musician up until about 1950 is that your real art is ephemeral and expensive. Since music couldn't be recorded with any real fidelity until that time then you are dependent on very expensive help, that is, other musicians, actors, dramatists etc., to get your work before an audience.

Think if George Lucas had to actually stage Star Wars whole for each and every performance, that was the problem most symphonic and opera composers faced; despite this, many did succeed at making a very good living out of it. Wagner did not.

You have some point indeed, I'd just like to add a bit to your comment.

Actually music recordings were mass sold at least from the 1890s onwards and by 1920 the great age of radio started.

The point in case however is that modern pop stars are going half a step back to the times gone by. While it is true, their fame is based on cheaply reproduced records, they increasingly earn their money with what also Strauss earned a lot: live concerts.

PS: In the museum for historical music instruments in Vienna they seem to have a supposedly last existing original record of the Johann Strauss Kapelle.