Thread: Multiculturalism has failed, says David Cameron

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

Because you are not White? So, you admit you have race base politics! I wonder when a White guy will be embraced as leader of the NAACP or United Negro College Fund. You falsely equate multiculturalism with tolerance, especially racial tolerance.

Folks can embrace you if you've assimilated into their culture. Ever hear of Lawrence of Arabia? My two best friends in college were Lebanese. One was Christian, the other Muslim. I was a bit closer to the Muslim. In grad school my closest friend was Indonesian of Chinese descent. They wanted their countries to become Americanized. They did not want America to become 3rd-world-ized. They came to benefit from American culture. They did not demand American culture change.

ahoy JohnLocke, hail!

actually matey, me own politics aren't much based on race. i think ye would have to sail endless leagues to find a single post i'd ever made on racial issues here on USPO...though imma sure i've made one or two.

i grew up in Princeton NJ, whar me father attended college shortly after comin' to this great and acceptin' land. he had many friends 'o asian descent because, well, thar were plenty 'o asians fer him to befriend. me mother sang in the chinese opera as her hobby, in the chinatown area 'o Manhattan. this was the culture i grew up in and saw in me youth.

i never ate a baked potatoe till i was well into high school. i didn't even know that people ate'm, aye!!!

the culture i grew up in was an american culture that accepted folks who hailed from various ports and celebrated our differences, and made room fer each to chart thar own course.

me father went on to gain 3 patents in chemistry related to the polymer industry at Hoechst Celanese, that helped improve the lives 'o our fellow americans. me mother (a biologist) discovered the key enzyme in Merck's cornerstone drug, Mevacor, the groundbreakin' medication that lowered cholesterol levels fer our fellow swabbys.

so, aye, HOORAY fer multiculturalism and the benefits its yielded, me friend.

*bow*

- MeadHallPirate

Originally Posted by Donahue

@Dragontalk

That's not what multiculturalism is though.

Various cultures may have been subjugated under Rome as it spanned the Mediterranean but those separate cultures stayed separate.

You are mistaken. You said above that Rome the city was not a blending of many cultures. It was. It was a very cosmopolitan city and in its streets one could find not only Romans properly so called, but Greeks, Jews, Gauls, people from the Middle East, Egyptians, etc., etc. Roman culture itself was heavily influenced by foreign cultures, especially the Greeks. The same is pretty much true of London, where one can find people of all sorts, especially those from everywhere in the former Empire. (For some Americans, including this one at first, there's a cognitive disconnect in hearing a black person speaking with a pure English accent.) And of course the same is true of major American cities.

Nor has it ever been the case that cultures which interact in this way remain uninfluenced by each other. The Romans adopted Greek medicine and science and philosophy, foreign foods and theater of every kind, and of course foreign religions: Mithraism, the cult of Magna Mater, Zoroastrianism, the Greek mystery religions, Gnosticism -- and Christianity. It was only after Christianity became the state religion of the Empire and the only legal religion that Rome ceased to be multicultural. And then the Empire fell.

Originally Posted by Dragontalk

You are mistaken. You said above that Rome the city was not a blending of many cultures. It was.

It is amazing how consistently and completely wrong one person can be. Rome was a blending of cultures, you say. A blending of cultures is assimilation not multiculturalism.

It is ironic that you refer to Rome in defense of multiculturalism as Rome is the ultimate example on planet Earth of do things their way. Hence the expression,
When in Rome, do as the Romans do. This is the very opposite of a multicultural expression, the very opposite.

Originally Posted by Donahue

@Dragontalk

That's not what multiculturalism is though.

Various cultures may have been subjugated under Rome as it spanned the Mediterranean but those separate cultures stayed separate.

EXACTLY right. In fact, many historians attribute this to their long duration as an empire.

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

i grew up in Princeton NJ ...the culture i grew up in was an american culture that accepted folks who hailed from various ports and celebrated our differences, and made room fer each to chart thar own course.

Again, you are confusing tolerance with multiculturalism. Thanks for admitting you grew up in an American culture. By definition, an American culture is not a multicultural culture.

Originally Posted by Dragontalk

You are mistaken. You said above that Rome the city was not a blending of many cultures. It was. It was a very cosmopolitan city and in its streets one could find not only Romans properly so called, but Greeks, Jews, Gauls, people from the Middle East, Egyptians, etc., etc. Roman culture itself was heavily influenced by foreign cultures, especially the Greeks. The same is pretty much true of London, where one can find people of all sorts, especially those from everywhere in the former Empire. (For some Americans, including this one at first, there's a cognitive disconnect in hearing a black person speaking with a pure English accent.) And of course the same is true of major American cities.

Nor has it ever been the case that cultures which interact in this way remain uninfluenced by each other. The Romans adopted Greek medicine and science and philosophy, foreign foods and theater of every kind, and of course foreign religions: Mithraism, the cult of Magna Mater, Zoroastrianism, the Greek mystery religions, Gnosticism -- and Christianity. It was only after Christianity became the state religion of the Empire and the only legal religion that Rome ceased to be multicultural. And then the Empire fell.

You're describing different ethnic backgrounds, which is altogether different from multiculturalism though.

I've spent most of my life living in Manhattan and while there are plenty of different ethnicities an African-American, Chinese-American or Indian-American has far more in common with me culturally than they do those living in Africa, China, or India; especially if their families have been here a few generations.

Having different skin colors does not mean two people have different cultures.

Can someone explain for me how we are defining multiculturalism in this discussion?

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

Again, you are confusing tolerance with multiculturalism. Thanks for admitting you grew up in an American culture. By definition, an American culture is not a multicultural culture.

ahoy JohnLocke!

my cultural experience growin' up in our great and prosperous land was a multicultural one, though. therefore, the American culture can be a multicultural one.

*ponders*

i will concede this to ye, matey.

though me Chinese parents inflicted thar cultural peculiarities on me (things like a rigid adherence to academics, a sense 'o frugality, fluency in Mandarin, and a respect fer one's elders), i managed to survive here in America, despite clingin' to these concepts that are so foreign here in this country.

*bows*

- MeadHallPirate

How in the world is an American culture not a multicultural one?

Surely, the OP is not arguing that there is a singular "American" culture.

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

therefore, the American culture can be a multicultural one.

No. You said you grew up in an American culture. As I pointed out, this is, by definition, not a multicultural culture.

Originally Posted by pramjockey

How in the world is an American culture not a multicultural one?

Because until the counter-cultural revolution of the 1960's, America's culture was one of Christian assimilation. Assimilation is the exact opposite of multiculturalism.

Originally Posted by pramjockey

Surely, the OP is not arguing that there is a singular "American" culture.

The OP is not talking about the American culture at all but the fact that multiculturalism has failed in their country and other European countries. I guess you did not read the article.

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

Because until the counter-cultural revolution of the 1960's, America's culture was one of Christian assimilation. Assimilation is the exact opposite of multiculturalism.

That's silly. There were many subcultures within America before the 1960s.

The OP is not talking about the American culture at all but the fact that multiculturalism has failed in their country and other European countries. I guess you did not read the article.

Dodge.

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

No. You said you grew up in an American culture. As I pointed out, this is, by definition, not a multicultural culture.

ahoy JohnLocke,

no...thats actually incorrect, me friend. me own american experience was a multicultural one.

*nods*

- MeadHallPirate

Originally Posted by pramjockey

That's silly. There were many subcultures within America before the 1960s.

We are not talking about subcultures.