Thread: The Koran is a Hate Filled Holy Book

Originally Posted by darth omar

How do you account for the fact that there is no Christian jihad? There are no Methodist hijackers flying planes into skyscrapers and the like?

I'm going to go with the fact that there is a major history of Muslim nations being conquered by Christian nations, but there is no major history of Christian nations being conquered by Muslim nations. Just like Fred Phelps who cherry picks the Leviticus verse that states that homosexuality is an abomination, all while shaving his face and wearing his hair short and probably eating bacon and shrimp; religious fanatics will FIND religious substantiation in their prospective holy books in an attempt to give their untenable positions strength.

Cyprus

Originally Posted by Unique POV

I'm going to go with the fact that there is a major history of Muslim nations being conquered by Christian nations, but there is no major history of Christian nations being conquered by Muslim nations. Just like Fred Phelps who cherry picks the Leviticus verse that states that homosexuality is an abomination, all while shaving his face and wearing his hair short and probably eating bacon and shrimp; religious fanatics will FIND religious substantiation in their prospective holy books in an attempt to give their untenable positions strength.

Anatomy and physiology books are even more unkind to homosexuality.

Originally Posted by Unique POV

I'm going to go with the fact that there is a major history of Muslim nations being conquered by Christian nations, but there is no major history of Christian nations being conquered by Muslim nations. Just like Fred Phelps who cherry picks the Leviticus verse that states that homosexuality is an abomination, all while shaving his face and wearing his hair short and probably eating bacon and shrimp; religious fanatics will FIND religious substantiation in their prospective holy books in an attempt to give their untenable positions strength.

What is untenable is the postion that Islam never conquered any part of Christendom. The Ottoman Empire extended well into Europe at one point.

Originally Posted by Tuco

Its part of the christian military doctrine. Fighting for the lord has been a very desirable occupation for many people throughout the times to reach salvation. The military knight orders, martyrs in the french religious wars, when sectarian violence almost ripped france apart and nowadays there are people who think that Jesus would have supported the war in Iraq.

Is the ACLU aware that there is a Christian militarly doctrine?

Originally Posted by Tuco

I dont see Christians or other people being more peaceful then muslims, neither in their backyard, nor politically. When was the last time a muslim country attacked a christian one? And the other way around? Oh yea, thats right.
Fact of the matter is, that religious people will always cherry-pick the other religions holy book and "criticize" them for this or that.

Send me Fred Phelps and I can dismantle his 'exegesis' with half my brain tied behind my back. I would happily do it right here. In contrast, I am far from convinced that moderate Muslim scholars have the upper hand in the debate over whether Islam is a religion of peace or more like a battle plan for forcing us all to submit to Allah.

Originally Posted by Tuco

Muslims do the same the other way around. We will never get anywhere like that, cause the flaw is in trying to compare religions, divide them into right and wrong.
I have a lot of criticism too for religions, but it is directed at all religions, because they are all based on what someone believes and not on facts.
Therefore people will always read in their holy books what they want to and if a christian is a violent person, he will find all the justification he needs in the bible too, by reading selectively. Same goes for a Muslim.
Thats why this discussion is not only useless, its an attempt by christians to make the rival look bad.
Point blank.

I don't think bin Laden and his ilk need my help in making his religion look bad.

Point blank.

Originally Posted by darth omar

Is the ACLU aware that there is a Christian militarly doctrine?

I dont know. And idont care, because there is. Even nowadays.

Rev. Richard Land on why as a Christian he supports the Iraq war; Iraq war 3-year anniversary; just-war theory- Beliefnet.com

Originally Posted by darth omar

Send me Fred Phelps and I can dismantle his 'exegesis' with half my brain tied behind my back. I would happily do it right here. In contrast, I am far from convinced that moderate Muslim scholars have the upper hand in the debate over whether Islam is a religion of peace or more like a battle plan for forcing us all to submit to Allah.

How many of the muslims you know care about all that?
I am asking because of all the Muslims i know, none of them care about all these theories and opinions. They just live their lifes.
Scholars have little impact on their lifes, outside from extremist and hick circles. Sounds familiar from the US?
But it becomes very obvious that the religious rival annoys you, cause otherwise you wouldnt insist on trying to convince us how badass all of them are, when they are not.

Originally Posted by darth omar

I don't think bin Laden and his ilk need my help in making his religion look bad.

Point blank.

I dont think that there are anymore christians needed to prove that they are capable of the same atrocities. They showed us already. Its in the history books. They just dont have any societal power anymore.
So where is the difference?
When Religious groups gain political power, they will force their shit on anyone and use violence and find some verses to justify it.
Its all in the history books.

Originally Posted by Tuco

I dont know. And idont care, because there is. Even nowadays.

Rev. Richard Land on why as a Christian he supports the Iraq war; Iraq war 3-year anniversary; just-war theory- Beliefnet.com

The ACLU quip was mostly in jest. That said, it had it's point. The ACLU couldn't invoke the Establishment Clause because Just War Theory isn't religious.

Originally Posted by Tuco

How many of the muslims you know care about all that?
I am asking because of all the Muslims i know, none of them care about all these theories and opinions. They just live their lifes.
Scholars have little impact on their lifes, outside from extremist and hick circles. Sounds familiar from the US?
But it becomes very obvious that the religious rival annoys you, cause otherwise you wouldnt insist on trying to convince us how badass all of them are, when they are not.

Was I annoyed when we were attacked on 9/11 by radical Islamists? Slightly.

What would they have to do before they warranted being called 'badass' by your estimation? Detonate a nuke in one of harbors? Maybe a dirty bomb or two in a couple major cities?

Or would you cling to your 'they are no worse than the Crusaders' argument?

Originally Posted by Tuco

I dont think that there are anymore christians needed to prove that they are capable of the same atrocities. They showed us already. Its in the history books. They just dont have any societal power anymore.
So where is the difference?
When Religious groups gain political power, they will force their shit on anyone and use violence and find some verses to justify it.
Its all in the history books.

Atrocities abound the history books. Stalin is history, too. Christians have plenty of power in this country. But they long ago learned to be content to live peacably within the bounds of law.

But then jihad isn't part of Christianity.

Originally Posted by darth omar

What is untenable is the postion that Islam never conquered any part of Christendom. The Ottoman Empire extended well into Europe at one point.

It is an untenable position.... and if you exercise your comprehension muscles... you'll see it's one I never took. The history of Christian nations conquering and or occupying Muslim nations is greater, and probably more importantly... much more recent.

Originally Posted by Unique POV

That's because when Americans commit clear acts of terrorism killing hundreds of people, they get charged with conspiracy and eight counts of murder. Absolutely americans commit terrorism, right here in the good ole US of A; but our government does not label them as terrorists unless they also happen to be foreign.

So, your response is to challenge the fact based on semantics. Murder is not terrorism. Murder can be driven by personal motives not ideology. The same is not true with terrorism. The ideology that drives terrorism is the hateful religion of Islam and their book is the Koran.

Originally Posted by Unique POV

It is an untenable position.... and if you exercise your comprehension muscles... you'll see it's one I never took. The history of Christian nations conquering and or occupying Muslim nations is greater, and probably more importantly... much more recent.

It comes across as amusing to me that the US is only a Christian nation when it invades Iraq. It seems both the secularists and the radical Islamists are stuck in the Crusader’s era.

I always thought we invaded Iraq to benefit Haliburton---with Christian empire coming somewhere down the pike, but I digress. I don’t know what your point is, but the one you seem to be leaning towards is the one that has Christianity being no worse than Islam---historically, anyway.

Today, not centuries ago, blasphemy is considered a capital offense in some Muslim countries. And I don’t mean when Muslims blaspheme. The law is applied to everyone who says the wrong thing about Mohammed or Allah.

Ostensibly, this law is rooted in the Koran. Is there anything similar in the either testament of the Bible? And I mean, specifically, where an unbeliever is subject to capital punishment for blasphemy. Not where God will judge them in eternity.

Originally Posted by darth omar

It comes across as amusing to me that the US is only a Christian nation when it invades Iraq ...

Ostensibly, this law is rooted in the Koran. Is there anything similar in the either testament of the Bible? And I mean, specifically, where an unbeliever is subject to capital punishment for blasphemy. Not where God will judge them in eternity.

Oh come on! You know multiculturalists take is moral equivalence even when there is none. LOL

One poster in this thread even equated a Christian who is annoying (for exercising their 1st Amendment right) with a Muslim who commits acts of terror.

Originally Posted by darth omar

Was I annoyed when we were attacked on 9/11 by radical Islamists? Slightly.

What would they have to do before they warranted being called 'badass' by your estimation? Detonate a nuke in one of harbors? Maybe a dirty bomb or two in a couple major cities?

Or would you cling to your 'they are no worse than the Crusaders' argument?

It doesnt matter what they would do, a book doesnt define peoples actions, political and societal circumstances do. And it is evident that all religions have the same potential for violence.
Christianity doesnt have the political power it used to have anymore. Thats the difference and that is good.
When it had the power it chopped off heads, burned blasphemers and destroyed mosques/sectarian churches and denied all kinds of womens rights.
It was stripped off its power and reduced to a private issue.

Originally Posted by darth omar

Atrocities abound the history books. Stalin is history, too. Christians have plenty of power in this country. But they long ago learned to be content to live peacably within the bounds of law.

But then jihad isn't part of Christianity.

No, they learned to obey secular law. Its not christian law.

Originally Posted by Tuco

It doesnt matter what they would do, a book doesnt define peoples actions, political and societal circumstances do. And it is evident that all religions have the same potential for violence.
Christianity doesnt have the political power it used to have anymore. Thats the difference and that is good.
When it had the power it chopped off heads, burned blasphemers and destroyed mosques/sectarian churches and denied all kinds of womens rights.
It was stripped off its power and reduced to a private issue.

Okay. What political-societal issues can cause young Muslim men to become suicide/murderer bombers?

And why don't they have the same effect on, say, disgruntled Hindus?

Originally Posted by Tuco

No, they learned to obey secular law. Its not christian law.

Here is a bit of important history you've over-looked. This secular nation was formed by predominantly Christian men who saw absolutely no contradiction between the Bible, Christian doctrine and the form of government we enjoy.

The reason they saw no contradiction is because there isn't any.

I submit to you, that if it had been formed by predominantly Muslim thinkers we wouldn't recognize it today. In fact, we might well be living under sharia law--because that is what the Koran stipulates.