Really? Taiwan is defenseless? Please. Pi, this shows you really don't have any idea what you are talking about when it comes to military affairs. China might be able to get troops accross the strait, but it does not have the ability to sustain them there. Taiwan's military is, weapon system to weapon system, more advanced than China and would certainly be able to hold their own until US help arrived.

So the fact that cnn, bbc, and others quote them constantly mean nothing, huh?

their military might have been more powerful in the 60s, but that was over 40 years ago.

Wrong. China is not a superpower because of its military.

From a military point of view, it does not.

Nor was military power ever the only factor, but it is a major factor.

The Chinese military, while growing, is currently a joke. Its most modern weapon systems are still at least a decade behind the west. I challenge you to find one weapon system where China is on par with the west, let alone the US.

India, while they lack China's numbers, is at least on par military tech wise with the PRC. In some areas they are even ahead.

Economically, I believe China is further ahead of India and therefore the bigger economic threat. However, there have been plenty of market analysts saying China will face a massive plunge in the near future. One of the catalysts for this will be when they finally reevaluate their currency.

Anyways, from a military standpoint, you haven't done anything to show China has a military capable of projecting power around the world.

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There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.

Taiwan is armed with US weapons, and has US support, but thats it. Neither do you have much of an idea when talking about China, purely because you believe the right wing sites and are biased against it.


I would like to see a source supporting this claim.

Nonsense. You seem to think the Chinese army is prehistoric and primitive. It must be sad for you to be this misinformed.

How about China news? Xinhua?

They have only upgraded since.


Nonsense. The military isn't the only thing required to be a superpower.

From many other points of view, it does.

But not the only factor.

Their missiles are as advanced.

More nonsense - India is not on par military tech wise with china.

Finally, I agree with you on something.

There have been plenty saying this massive plunge won't occur, and there will be even more rapid development.

I never brought up the issue of the military in the first place, if you read the OP.

Taiwan also has training, prime defensive positions, and motivation. Having served in the US Military with a command that was slated to fight in the event of a war with China, it was my job to know the capabilities of the PLA, PLAN, and PLAAF. Everything out there points to China not being able to take Taiwan at this point.

Any source showing Chinese military hardware shows that China does not have the airlift or sealift capabilities needed to take and/or hold Taiwan. Learning Science & Technology Roadmaps is a good one. This is even more true in the event of an American intervention, since it would not be hard at all for the US to dislodge any foothold China would gain.

I do not think that at all. I just know they are not as capable as you believe.

You mean Chinese state run news? And you talk about biased sources.....

Indeed they have, but so has India. Infact, India has larger and more capable blue water navy. Add to that its modern aircraft and armor, and you have a military capable of holding off any Chinese attack.

[quote=Pi Jiu;952231]
Nonsense. The military isn't the only thing required to be a superpower.

I agree. However, military power is vital to becoming a superpower. How good is your global economy if you don't have the ability to protect your interests around the globe? At this point, China does not have the military power to do that.

So far, it is only your point of view.

Again, I never said it was.

No, they aren't. Forget the fact that their missiles are based off nearly obsolete Russian tech, they also lack modern guidance systems. China can launch many missiles, but whether they will be able to hit anything is the question.

Really? They have recently imported T-90 MBTs from Russia, and have been given permission to manufacture their own varient, the T-90S Bhishma.

In addition to this, their air force is fielding the Sukhoi Su-30MKI, both bought from Russia and manufactured in India.

Finally, their navy is quite superior. Especially because it is actually a blue water navy, with aircraft carriers, nuclear powered attack subs, modern diesel attack subs, and mulitiple guided missile destroyers and frigates.

Time will tell I guess.

You brought up China being a superpower, to which I say that it doesn't have the military to qualify as one.

__________________
There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.

That's a very easy question. China.

There is no rational reason to believe that India will ever achieve that status.

With China, the only question is when.

Indeed, one only has to consider US geostrategic planning. They perceive the rise of China to superpower status within a few short decades.

Agree, 100 percent.

China also has training and motivation. Honestly, do you think their army is like Iraq's? Further, the only thing Taiwanese have going for them is US support. That's it.


Your sources only reflect what you say, so I could say the same about them.

Sorry, but you are flat out wrong here.

Sure they have the military to protect their interests around the globe. Just because they don't start wars like Bush does doesn't mean they don't have military capability.


As far as I can see, it's only you and Thematic Device that are arguing China won't be a superpower.

This shows your _ _ _ _ ness in you. The term we especially Indians use to refer to those who are struck to a mindset enthrusted on by military and mulla regimes.

You don't trust two websites because they are western. Seems very foolish and a very closed mindset.

The war between India was fought in the 1960's when India was left with an army that was not properly equipped and the mindset of the politicians at that time was that India need only a police force and the army can be dismantled. Only after the Chinese attack, (that taught Indians that no one can be trusted) the resurgence of the Indian military has taken place.

The future belongs to three nations, the China, India and the U.S. The world will become a mulipolar world. There will also be the emergence of smaller powers.

There are many other parameters other than Kms. Like effectiveness, requirement, area, population density etc.

Indian Railways - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Indian highways - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Similarly there are state highways.

I am unsure as to what term you are referring to, however, it is clear from your post that it is little more than a personal attack, containing very little substance, and no logical argument at all.

You don't trust the web sites I show you, because they are Chinese.

I could the same about you.

Nonsense. There was never any talk about dismantling the Indian army. In fact, they had fought wars with Pakistan a few years ago. You have an Indian flag in your profile, and it seems you are Indian. Do you not know your own history, Arjun?

The Chinese military hasn't been sitting around on it's hands while this "resurgence has taken place".

Anyway, you haven't answered the question, but have dodged it. The question was which will be the superpower? China or India? Maybe you could focus on answering the question instead of irrelevancies and personal attacks.

An antiquated, slow moving, crime ridden bunch of broken down trains as compared to China's high speed trains? Give me a break, please.

Yeah! State highways on which one jostles for space with tractors, cows, pigs, humans, ALL moving on the same one lane road, and in different directions, and in some areas so congested that I could move from one end of my house to the other faster than I could move 5 yards on that "highway".

As compared to China's new multi lane high speed highways, which are for the most part up to Western standards, and speeds.

It must be sad to be as misinformed as you.

China is not a superpower, since the only superpower is America right now. China has military sub-bases in Pakistan and Burma with other names, but these two countries all have land borders with China.

The 1962 China-India war was provoked by India's frequent harassment across even the MacMohan Line. China, regardless it is Qing Dynasty, Republic of China or People's Republic of China, have never recognized the British MacMohan Line, and have all claimed the Southern Tibet part where the 6th Dalai Lama was born as a part of Tibet. Indian soldiers crossing even the MacMohan Line would definitely lead to war.

Economically, Asian countries need dictatorship to develop economy in the most efficient way. Japan, S Korea, HongKong, Taiwan and Singapore all get rich under dictators. After you get rich, you can do whatever political system you want. But as a poor country in a system exactly designed by Western countries, believe it or not, you can hardly catch up with the western countries. Actually, no country with a significant size have caught up with western countries in a western designed system.

Well, recently, western countries might have to make India richer hopefully to balance China for their purposes. But as long as India's developments have negative effects on their resources, they would not even hesitate to choke India.

Militarily, China has much better independent weapon production ability than India, while India can buy more weapons from Russia, Europe and America.

1.500 km of expressways (a little more than Denmark has) for a country with more than a billion people speaks for itself.

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It all comes down to this on election day: Are you a racist, or do you look down on spastics?