Perhaps my definition of fiduciary trust is far too old-fashioned for contemporary politics. Government interprets a trust as the government owning trust assets in all public trusts to use as they see fit, regardless of any specific trust beneficiary requirements. Surplus trust funds are placed in general revenue and are not specifically used for domestic programs.

As mentioned, I don't personally care one way or the other, I'd just like to see politicians attempting to explain SS surplus to the general public, including the swap for IOUs for the illusion of lower spending deficits, to enjoy that public reaction.

What would the offsetting entry be, trust dissolution? That would make for an interesting political scenario. The going broke early effort to turn part of the revenue stream over to cronies on Wall Street didn't work, but I'm sure leadership will eventually come up with something where private sector special interests can get their hands on part or all of it for another equity bubble.

One only needs to look at tax revenues to understand, when taxes are lowered tax revenues increase. Kennedy did so, Reagan did so - tax revenues increased.

We now face a trade spate with China, a loon tune in Iran, morgage defaults, $66.00 barrel oil, & financials are rolling over.

To increase taxes now will lead to a min. of a slow down and probably a recession.

This may well be what the D's want helping to insure there return to the White House

What a great idea. Let's just reduce the tax rate to zero and revenues will be infinite!

__________________
A nation of slaves is always prepared to applaud the clemency of their master who, in the abuse of absolute power, does not proceed to the utmost extremes of injustice and oppression.
Edward Gibbon

thats were paygo is a sham......

__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

allowing the tax cuts to expire is a rise in taxes..period.....the laundry list sam started wt this thread with is real and will hurt......it will be interesting so see the spin meisters address this one...

the deficit is running 2.1 of gdp......

__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

Does that include surplus SS collections and supplementary funding for Afghanistan/Iraq?

Let's see, US 2006 GDP growth was officially 3.4%, stated deficits were x, supplementary funding y and internal debt z, throw in some economic flow-through from debt based government capital injections and I'm having a problem seeing positive growth. Guess I need to learn the new government math.

Your sarcasm aside, what he says is exactly correct. The money flowing into the Federal coffers has increased with each income tax cut that has been done by the aforementioned presidents as well as Bush. You choosing to ignore reality won't change it.

__________________
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

President George W. Bush, 8-5-2004

Carolina Politics Online

THIS IS REAL HOPE AND CHANGE!

No sarcasm involved on my part. The poster made a ridiculous assertion that I merely followed to its logical conclusion.

__________________
A nation of slaves is always prepared to applaud the clemency of their master who, in the abuse of absolute power, does not proceed to the utmost extremes of injustice and oppression.
Edward Gibbon

theres nothing new about the math.....I have no doubt there are off the books spending etc..whcih makes it difficult to get a real number..I object to the selectivity....every pres has run outside the budget supplements for one thing or another...I hate the fact that ss noon spends are spent at all I believe Bush tried to do something about that and a few senators from both sides of the aile wantedf lock those up...but alas....etc..only this time there is a republicans in the white house....so if are going to address yardsticks etc.then lets start with the oft touted misery index etc. used by your very own when it suites them....

__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

No selectivity, no affiliations. Clinton's surplus was the same sham when netted down by off-budget spending. They're all self-serving and the general public facilitates their activities through apathy and ignorance. The piper will come calling.

That's reality.

Actually that's a crock of shit, although a hallowed part of Right Wing Mythology, it has no basis in fact.

When Kennedy lowered the top tax brackets, he also eliminated many deductions increasing the effective tax rate and increasing collections.

Reagan used the largest middle class tax hike in history to boost the revenues after his tax cuts left the country with huge deficits.

And it took years of growth to bring revenues back to the pre-tax cut levels during the Bush Administration.

True, revenues grow after a tax cut, they also grow after a tax hike and they grow after taxes are left level. That's because the economy grows, and the economy has grown during periods of high taxes and periods of low taxes, there is simply no demonstrable link between the top marginal tax rate and economic growth.
During the 1950's Growth averaged 5% per annum, the top marginal income tax rate was 95%. It's less than half of that today, and the average rate of growth is far lower than 5%.

__________________
“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address

History doesn't lie.

__________________
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

President George W. Bush, 8-5-2004

Carolina Politics Online

THIS IS REAL HOPE AND CHANGE!

And history also does not agree with this ridiculous claim. Just ask the chairman of w's Council of Economic Advisors. In recent testimony before congress he said “I certainly would not claim that tax cuts pay for themselves.” And Gregory Mankiw, President’s Bush’s former CEA chair wrote there is “no credible evidence” that “tax revenues… rise in the face of lower tax rates.” Mankiw compared an economist who says that tax cuts pay for themselves to a “snake oil salesman trying to sell a miracle cure.”

And you should check out this recent treasury department report because it explains that these tax cuts will have to be paid for with either future tax increases or spending cuts and that even if that happens the effect on the economy will be so small as to be almost unmeasurable.

__________________
A nation of slaves is always prepared to applaud the clemency of their master who, in the abuse of absolute power, does not proceed to the utmost extremes of injustice and oppression.
Edward Gibbon

Facts and Figures and Reality all have a definite Liberal Bias.
But just as surely as Krytonite weakens Superman, and cats have nine lives, tax cuts increase revenues. Ask any superstitious comic book fan who votes Republican.

__________________
“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address