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Old 05-22-2007
Americano Americano is offline
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Re: Fair Tax?

The extremely wealthy are a finite number, actually quite small in regard to total population, as are the wealthy who rank below extremely wealthy and above middle class. Those classes of wealth will mostly remain stable in numbers with re-investment being their primary expenditure of income, all non-taxable.

The middle class, a declining percentage of the population due to changes in US economic circumstances, will continue their decline, reducing taxpayers in that demographic group. That decline will add taxpayers to the bottom group where, under the proposed changes, the least amount of tax revenue will be available.

Looks to me like a fantasy.

As to tourists and illegal aliens picking up the slack, that's a real fantasy. Since 911 US tourism has sharply declined, not due to fear but unwieldy airport security and world dislike of US foreign policy. Illegal aliens by their very definition are difficult to find and therefore non-taxable.
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Old 05-22-2007
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Re: Fair Tax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by usmc7011 View Post
Do pharmacists usually not pay taxes?
If they do creative overseas banking and accounting, they probably don't pay their share in taxes.
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Old 05-22-2007
steveox steveox is offline
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Re: Fair Tax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by usmc7011 View Post
The wealthy already pays their fair share.
BTW this thread is about the Fair Tax Plan not the steveox tax plan
Do you own this?

Or own this?

Or own this?

Or own this?

Or own this?

Then the Luxery sales tax is right!
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Old 05-23-2007
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usmc7011 usmc7011 is offline
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Re: Fair Tax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goober View Post
Do you really think that the additional sales tax paid by illegal aliens will allow taxes to be cut from 20 to 30 % for most Americans?

This tax rate is based on income=expenditure.
But if someone makes 10 million, and only spends a million and invests the rest, they will only be taxed on one million.
While investing 90% of one's earnings is a real possibility for a person with a ten million dollar income, it's not really feasible for a family of four on an income of $50,000/year.
And while it's possible to avoid the tax on some things, like buying a used car, no one can buy used food or used medicine or used gasoline.
So this this "Fair Tax" in practice would be extremely regressive, and would end up shifting the tax burden onto the middle class to the benefit of the extremely wealthy.
Illegal aliens is just one of three examples that currently not paying income tax and thus must pay the Fair Tax.
Stop by you local book store or library and pick up the book, it can explain it far better than I can
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Old 05-23-2007
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usmc7011 usmc7011 is offline
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Re: Fair Tax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americano View Post
The extremely wealthy are a finite number, actually quite small in regard to total population, as are the wealthy who rank below extremely wealthy and above middle class. Those classes of wealth will mostly remain stable in numbers with re-investment being their primary expenditure of income, all non-taxable.

The middle class, a declining percentage of the population due to changes in US economic circumstances, will continue their decline, reducing taxpayers in that demographic group. That decline will add taxpayers to the bottom group where, under the proposed changes, the least amount of tax revenue will be available.

Looks to me like a fantasy.

As to tourists and illegal aliens picking up the slack, that's a real fantasy. Since 911 US tourism has sharply declined, not due to fear but unwieldy airport security and world dislike of US foreign policy. Illegal aliens by their very definition are difficult to find and therefore non-taxable.
tourists and illegal aliens are just examples. For more info, please refer to the fair tax book
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Old 05-23-2007
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Re: Fair Tax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AjaxPress View Post
If they do creative overseas banking and accounting, they probably don't pay their share in taxes.
How many pharmacists have you heard of doing these things?
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Old 05-23-2007
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usmc7011 usmc7011 is offline
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Re: Fair Tax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveox View Post
Do you own this?

Or own this?

Or own this?

Or own this?

Or own this?

Then the Luxery sales tax is right!
What difference does it make?
You probably prescribe to the Robin Hood fantasy of taking from the rich and giving to the poor. FYI robin hood was a thief
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Old 05-23-2007
Americano Americano is offline
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Re: Fair Tax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by usmc7011 View Post
tourists and illegal aliens are just examples. For more info, please refer to the fair tax book
On the surface it provides no comfort level of being able to produce enough tax revenue nor will it replace the IRS (perhaps rename it) and I'm positioned where either current or the proposed tax legislation is acceptable, so I'll pass on the supposed learning curve. Will the general public tear themselves away from their TVs to read a book (if they still read) on proposed tax legislation?
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Old 05-23-2007
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Re: Fair Tax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
What do you guys think of this?

Distribution of the FairTax burden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

23% sales tax but no income tax and also aboloshing the IRS.
I think the proper link would be - FairTax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia if you want to talk about the fairtax. If your asking what I think about the wikipedia article and its characterization of it as some sort of burden, then I can answer that as well.

I am of course a staunch supporter of the Fair Tax. The income tax is currently hindering the american economy, and costing taxpayers 400 billion a year in compliance costs. Even the IRS doesnt know what their own tax code says. The Fair Tax is designed to fix all that and make tax paying simple and fair. It is not designed to balanced the budget, fix spending, or reofmr social security, etc. It is only a method of tax collection.

But any method of moving trillions of dollars from people to the govt is bound to have disadvantges and the Fair Tax has its share. The positives simply outweigh it. Under the Fair Tax, you receive your entire paycheck, and there is no yearly filing, no taxes on any type of investment including education. You are not taxed when you die, or buy used items, or are given gifts. The only time you pay a tax is when you as an individual buys anything new from a business. That includes food and services such as surgery.

BUT, there is one type of exemption, and that is on spending up to the level of poverty. But, not just the poor get it. EVERYONE gets it. Anyone with a social security numbers gets a check every month equal to the taxes paid on about $12k for an individual.

As for the tax rate, it is set at 23% inclusive in legislation, That may be higher or lower when finally passed, based on politics and need. Since the original writing, that number is expected to be less as the economy has grown and consumer spending with it. This means if you buy a $100 item, the business send $23 to the state tax collectors who forward to the tresury. Business and the states are paid by the federal govt to collect this tax, eliminating the IRS.

Finally, along with HR25, there is companion legislation to eliminate the 16th amendment, which authorizes the federal govt to collect income tax. Without this, the Fair Tax is near pointless, as congress would start collecting two taxes.

There is much more than this, and this legislation is the most researched tax plan to date. It is also the one with the most support of the people, and congress, which has over 60 sponsors. It is supported by several candidates for President, and books on the subject have sold millions of copies.

Americans For Fair Taxation: Beyond the Basics
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Elminate all taxes on income and replace with a national sales tax.
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Old 05-23-2007
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Evil_inKarlate Evil_inKarlate is offline
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Re: Fair Tax?

Quote:
Do you own this? Or own this? Or own this? Or own this? Or own this?
Then the Luxery sales tax is right!
I also don't own a mobile home, don't own a 10+ yr old car, don't have a pickup, don't rent my home, and don't have any out-of-wedlock children (that I know of). Perhaps it's right to tax all those things, instead? (Or in addition?)

Quote:
You probably prescribe to the Robin Hood fantasy of taking from the rich and giving to the poor. FYI robin hood was a thief
And more importantly and more often overlooked, the 'rich' he stole from was The Government.


The fair tax certainly has its warts, but it seems to beat the current system.
The real problem isn't so much the method of taxation, which will always be biased against Somebody, but the improper spending that the taxes go towards. If we cut spending back to appropriate items, Every taxpayer could get a tax break!
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Old 05-23-2007
wrxsti wrxsti is offline
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Re: Fair Tax?

We could just give up all forms of taxation, and replace the revenue stream with monies collected by local and state police from traffic violations.
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Old 05-23-2007
steveox steveox is offline
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Re: Fair Tax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by usmc7011 View Post
What difference does it make?
You probably prescribe to the Robin Hood fantasy of taking from the rich and giving to the poor. FYI robin hood was a thief
What you think the Bush adminstration is doing? Taking it from the Middle class and from the poor giving it to the Wealthy!!! Look at Hollywood,,They all encourge us to Take light rail and buses but they fly on private jets and drive Rolls Royces and BMWs. So They have to pay to luxery sales tax.
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Old 05-23-2007
Americano Americano is offline
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Re: Fair Tax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxsti View Post
We could just give up all forms of taxation, and replace the revenue stream with monies collected by local and state police from traffic violations.
Has that practice ceased in Southern states?
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Old 05-23-2007
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Re: Fair Tax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by usmc7011 View Post
How many pharmacists have you heard of doing these things?
People who find out about such things wind up with cement shoes and tour the bottom of oceans.
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Old 05-23-2007
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usmc7011 usmc7011 is offline
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Re: Fair Tax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveox View Post
What you think the Bush adminstration is doing? Taking it from the Middle class and from the poor giving it to the Wealthy!!! Look at Hollywood,,They all encourge us to Take light rail and buses but they fly on private jets and drive Rolls Royces and BMWs. So They have to pay to luxery sales tax.
right
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