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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2007
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Re: Fair Tax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by liberty1776 View Post
Did you read anything else that I wrote? Read this post:
http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/econ...ml#post1011385

Respond to it.

Also, my argument to end government is very serious and there is very serious scholarship arguing for the same thing. Your refusal to do any sort of research, or to read any sort of serious scholarship, or to think about my posts and respond to them is an admission that you have no intention of serious argument.
No. There is no "serious scholarship" arguing for ending government. Millions of years of biology and thousands of years of culture make it clear there is no humanity, no culture, and no civilization without government and therefore no "moral law" to be violated by government. Since there is no culture or civilization without government and no government without taxation then taxation is not "stealing".

So really no offense intended but none of the "arguments" you've made on this subject pass the giggle test. I'm halfway convinced you're just pulling our leg with this stuff.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2007
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Re: Fair Tax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by timj219 View Post
No. There is no "serious scholarship" arguing for ending government. Millions of years of biology and thousands of years of culture make it clear there is no humanity, no culture, and no civilization without government and therefore no "moral law" to be violated by government. Since there is no culture or civilization without government and no government without taxation then taxation is not "stealing".

So really no offense intended but none of the "arguments" you've made on this subject pass the giggle test. I'm halfway convinced you're just pulling our leg with this stuff.
I agree with everything except the "taxation isn't stealing." Taxes that are supported by the Constitution, such as a fair tax and license taxes, are perfectly fine. The Federal Income Tax, however, is unconstitutional in that the Supreme Court ruled repeatedly that the government shall not tax personal income. So, everytime you get your pay stub and it shows how they automatically take out those taxes, just know that they have stolen that money from you.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2007
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Re: Fair Tax?

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Originally Posted by liberty1776 View Post
Exactly! Now you are seeing my conclusions: End government.
Interesting proposition. So, based on your other responses, I assume you simply want to exchange political government for corporate government?
Quote:
Jefferson wrote that government derives its just powers from the consent of the governed. I beleive in this statement. I never gave my consent to the US government for it to tax me. Therefor, it is unjust for me to be taxed.
Neither did I, the guys who did got here before I did. And they set it up so their system did have the legal and moral right to tax anyone who wanted to live here. Of course, you're more than free to disagree with their rules, leave, or simply unseat their government. But arguing they have no legal or moral right to tax you is simply irrational and contrary to what I would assume your philosophy is. Since you obviously believe this government (or any government, for that matter) doesn't govern you, then you are not one from whom this government derives its power.
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2007
liberty1776 liberty1776 is offline
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Re: Fair Tax?

You are right, I am not one from whom government derives its powers. This means that government cannot govern me. I do not want to be governed and I do not want any government services.
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2007
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Re: Fair Tax?

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You are right, I am not one from whom government derives its powers. This means that government cannot govern me. I do not want to be governed and I do not want any government services.
You sound like a child throwing a tantrum. Around here people typically supply a reason why others should care what they think besides "I want this I want that."
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2007
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Re: Fair Tax?

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Originally Posted by timj219 View Post
You sound like a child throwing a tantrum. Around here people typically supply a reason why others should care what they think besides "I want this I want that."
Isn't that what politics are all about, bub?
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2007
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Re: Fair Tax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post
I agree with everything except the "taxation isn't stealing." Taxes that are supported by the Constitution, such as a fair tax and license taxes, are perfectly fine. The Federal Income Tax, however, is unconstitutional in that the Supreme Court ruled repeatedly that the government shall not tax personal income. So, everytime you get your pay stub and it shows how they automatically take out those taxes, just know that they have stolen that money from you.
I'm sorry you've been taken in by this fraud. In fact the income tax is perfectly legal. Helvering v. Gerhardt and O’Malley v. Woodrough are two of the many cases where SCOTUS has explicitly upheld congress' power to tax income.
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2007
Cato Cato is offline
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Re: Fair Tax?

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Originally Posted by liberty1776 View Post
You are right, I am not one from whom government derives its powers. This means that government cannot govern me. I do not want to be governed and I do not want any government services.
Wow, that was easy. Where are you going to go? Why do you have those flags in your header? What will your new flag look like? Will you even have a flag (since a flag denotes some form of organized group)?
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2007
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Re: Fair Tax?

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Originally Posted by joeblow View Post
Isn't that what politics are all about, bub?
Only for small children, bub.
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2007
liberty1776 liberty1776 is offline
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Re: Fair Tax?

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Originally Posted by Cato View Post
Wow, that was easy. Where are you going to go? Why do you have those flags in your header? What will your new flag look like? Will you even have a flag (since a flag denotes some form of organized group)?
I must confess, I do not know how to change the flags.

Also, I have no problem with an orgainzed group.
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2007
liberty1776 liberty1776 is offline
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Re: Fair Tax?

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Originally Posted by timj219 View Post
You sound like a child throwing a tantrum. Around here people typically supply a reason why others should care what they think besides "I want this I want that."
Yes, I have done this, in other posts. I am not doing it again.

Also, I don't care what other people think about what I want. I am right, darn it, and that is that.

Can you supply a reason why I sould be forced to do what you want me to do?
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2007
liberty1776 liberty1776 is offline
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Re: Fair Tax?

Here is some serious scholarship from distinguised people. The links are link to thier CVs.
Hans Hoppe, Professor of Economics at UNLV.
Hans-Hermann Hoppe, The Mises Institute

Walter Block, Endowed Chair at Loyola New Orelans.
http://walterblock.com/bio/block_cv.pdf
His CV is 104 pages. This is probably more than you have ever written.

Roger Garrison, Economics Professor, Auburn:
http://www.auburn.edu/~garriro/vita03.pdf

Roderick T. Long, Professor of Philosphy, Auburn:
Roderick T. Long's Home Page (this isn't his CV, but it is a list of a lot of his works.)

So, would you like to make this silly little argument that there is no serious scholarship on anarchy? Or are the many works of these four tenured professors enough? If you want more, let me know. I have only scratched the surface.
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2007
Cato Cato is offline
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Re: Fair Tax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by liberty1776 View Post
I must confess, I do not know how to change the flags.
It's in your preferences, based upon what you choose for your location.
Quote:
Also, I have no problem with an orgainzed group.
But that's what a government is. I thought you were advocating no government?
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2007
liberty1776 liberty1776 is offline
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Re: Fair Tax?

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Originally Posted by Cato View Post
It's in your preferences, based upon what you choose for your location.

But that's what a government is. I thought you were advocating no government?
Let me clarify. I realize that people need government to survive as a whole. This does not mean that people need a state. The two are very different. Yes, the state is a type of government, but not the only type. I think that it would be inapropriate for me to discuss this any further in this thread, but I would be happy to do it in another thread, or privatly through e-mail.

An organized group is not the same as a state. Corporations are not a state, yet they have an orgianzational strcture. I have no problem with voulantary groups.
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2007
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timj219 timj219 is online now
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Re: Fair Tax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by liberty1776 View Post
Here is some serious scholarship from distinguised people. The links are link to thier CVs.
Hans Hoppe, Professor of Economics at UNLV.
Hans-Hermann Hoppe, The Mises Institute

Walter Block, Endowed Chair at Loyola New Orelans.
http://walterblock.com/bio/block_cv.pdf
His CV is 104 pages. This is probably more than you have ever written.

Roger Garrison, Economics Professor, Auburn:
http://www.auburn.edu/~garriro/vita03.pdf

Roderick T. Long, Professor of Philosphy, Auburn:
Roderick T. Long's Home Page (this isn't his CV, but it is a list of a lot of his works.)

So, would you like to make this silly little argument that there is no serious scholarship on anarchy? Or are the many works of these four tenured professors enough? If you want more, let me know. I have only scratched the surface.
There is no content in any of those links which bears on this subject. Your "end government" idea is still a joke
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