Visit the U.S. Politics Online Discussion Forum Archives!

Sponsored by:

U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum  

Bookmark Us! E-Mail DONATE NOW! Photo Gallery Document Archives Quiz! Register to Vote!!!
Go Back   U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum > Issue Politics > Economic Issues

Economic Issues Business, Commerce, Consumer Affairs, Economics, Public Finance, Trade

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2007
electric-rascal's Avatar
electric-rascal electric-rascal is offline
Active Citizen

 
Member Since: Apr 2007
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 74

   
What happens when the "rich people" bail out?

I keep hearing the same old class-envy, anti-business crap from the politicians:
  • We'll increase taxes on the rich to pay for this
  • We'll make the rich pay their fair share
  • Businesses will pay the cost (oh no they don't... the pass it along to the end-user/buyer)
What happens when the "rich people" have had enough and say to hell with it?

It's these "rich people" (which I think to some politicians means anyone making more than $60K/yr.) that are the best at creating jobs, starting companies, growing businesses, etc., so why make any more burdens on them? If you torque them off enough, they'll just say screw it and cut way back or give up all together.

I know a guy that a couple of years ago had about 12 people working for him and he had a very successful plumbing business and paid his workers a top wage, but the ever-increasing taxes, regulations and insurance requirements became so onerous he gave it all up and now works solo... he turned everyone that worked for him loose.

These same politicians seem to think that the the tax system in this country is an unlimited resource from which they can tap into in order to spend money like crazy. Also, the politicians that we elect seem to use the quantity of new laws and regulations that they bring about as a measure of success; they never take into account how much they are draining the resources of people and businesses alike.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2007
Donkey_Left's Avatar
Donkey_Left Donkey_Left is offline
President
Sinner

 
Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 13,156

United_States     Colombia

Re: What happens when the "rich people" bail out?

What exactly do you mean "bail out?"
__________________
"Jesus said: I have cast fire upon the world, and behold I guard it until it is ablaze."
Gospel of Thomas
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2007
pramjockey's Avatar
pramjockey pramjockey is offline
OMG!
Scruffy-looking nerf herder

 
Member Since: Feb 2006
Location: Morrison, CO
Posts: 14,159

Scotland     Colorado

Re: What happens when the "rich people" bail out?

They'll follow Halliburton to Dubai?
__________________
When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2007
timj219's Avatar
timj219 timj219 is online now
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jan 2006
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 4,755

United_States     New_York

Re: What happens when the "rich people" bail out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by electric-rascal View Post
I keep hearing the same old class-envy, anti-business crap from the politicians:
  • We'll increase taxes on the rich to pay for this
  • We'll make the rich pay their fair share
  • Businesses will pay the cost (oh no they don't... the pass it along to the end-user/buyer)
What happens when the "rich people" have had enough and say to hell with it?

It's these "rich people" (which I think to some politicians means anyone making more than $60K/yr.) that are the best at creating jobs, starting companies, growing businesses, etc., so why make any more burdens on them? If you torque them off enough, they'll just say screw it and cut way back or give up all together.

I know a guy that a couple of years ago had about 12 people working for him and he had a very successful plumbing business and paid his workers a top wage, but the ever-increasing taxes, regulations and insurance requirements became so onerous he gave it all up and now works solo... he turned everyone that worked for him loose.

These same politicians seem to think that the the tax system in this country is an unlimited resource from which they can tap into in order to spend money like crazy. Also, the politicians that we elect seem to use the quantity of new laws and regulations that they bring about as a measure of success; they never take into account how much they are draining the resources of people and businesses alike.
This country is still the greatest place in the world to be rich. It also still offers great opportunities to become rich (or richer) legally. Taxes, regulations, and insurance requirements are just the cost of being allowed to live and do business in such a fertile environment.

It's also these "rich people that are the best" at moving jobs and money offshore, damaging the environment, exploiting workers, gulling consumers, and generally jobbing the system for their own benefit. So it's perfectly acceptable to ask them to shoulder a large part of the "burden" of keeping this country great for all of us.
__________________
A nation of slaves is always prepared to applaud the clemency of their master who, in the abuse of absolute power, does not proceed to the utmost extremes of injustice and oppression.
Edward Gibbon
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2007
Americano Americano is offline
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Feb 2007
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 5,661

   
Re: What happens when the "rich people" bail out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by electric-rascal View Post
What happens when the "rich people" have had enough and say to hell with it?
When the cost of maintaining civil order becomes greater than the benefits of residence. That's dependent on the ability to maintain privacy and lifestyle through control of LE and the military.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2007
AdrienXII AdrienXII is offline
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Dec 2004
Location: france
Posts: 5,158

   
Re: What happens when the "rich people" bail out?

Society provides the environment necessary to accumulate wealth, and rich people are the ones that benefit most from society. They should contribute more. Not to mention it's in their own interest to protect the system which allows them to be rich in the first place.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2007
timj219's Avatar
timj219 timj219 is online now
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jan 2006
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 4,755

United_States     New_York

Re: What happens when the "rich people" bail out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americano View Post
When the cost of maintaining civil order becomes greater than the benefits of residence. That's dependent on the ability to maintain privacy and lifestyle through control of LE and the military.
This is the kind of thing that afflicts rich people in countries that do not have adequate business regulations and taxation. Like indonesia for example where rich people have to live in protected compounds with their own electrical generating capability and need bodyguards for themselves and their families whenever they venture out. The cost savings from not being taxed or regulated are reduced by the cost of providing your own security and infrastructure and of course by the bribes that are endemic in such a system. Then there is the cost of sending your children to europe or the US for their education
__________________
A nation of slaves is always prepared to applaud the clemency of their master who, in the abuse of absolute power, does not proceed to the utmost extremes of injustice and oppression.
Edward Gibbon
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2007
Americano Americano is offline
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Feb 2007
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 5,661

   
Re: What happens when the "rich people" bail out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by timj219 View Post
This is the kind of thing that afflicts rich people in countries that do not have adequate business regulations and taxation. Like indonesia for example where rich people have to live in protected compounds with their own electrical generating capability and need bodyguards for themselves and their families whenever they venture out. The cost savings from not being taxed or regulated are reduced by the cost of providing your own security and infrastructure and of course by the bribes that are endemic in such a system. Then there is the cost of sending your children to europe or the US for their education
As I said, when the cost of maintaining civil order becomes greater than the benefits of residence.

I don't know how much exposure you have to US residents of moderate to vast wealth but you've pretty well defined their lifestyles in metropolitan areas though the generators are normally for back-up purposes.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2007
timj219's Avatar
timj219 timj219 is online now
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jan 2006
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 4,755

United_States     New_York

Re: What happens when the "rich people" bail out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americano View Post
As I said, when the cost of maintaining civil order becomes greater than the benefits of residence.

I don't know how much exposure you have to US residents of moderate to vast wealth but you've pretty well defined their lifestyles in metropolitan areas though the generators are normally for back-up purposes.
No personal exposure to vast wealth - only moderate (millions to tens of millions - not hundreds of millions or billions) - and the moderately wealthy here do not routinely pay bribes as a daily cost of doing business. Their money is safe and easily available in banks in this country and can be moved at will (red tape notwithstanding). Their investments are protected from nationalization and are protected by government watchdogs. Nor do they worry about their family members being kidnapped, or a change in government resulting in the immediate confiscation of everything they own. They can educate their children here - sometimes even in public schools. This may not apply to the famous - just the wealthy.
__________________
A nation of slaves is always prepared to applaud the clemency of their master who, in the abuse of absolute power, does not proceed to the utmost extremes of injustice and oppression.
Edward Gibbon
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2007
jviehe's Avatar
jviehe jviehe is offline
President

 
Member Since: Jan 2004
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 11,637

United_States    
Re: What happens when the "rich people" bail out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by electric-rascal View Post
I keep hearing the same old class-envy, anti-business crap from the politicians:
  • We'll increase taxes on the rich to pay for this
  • We'll make the rich pay their fair share
  • Businesses will pay the cost (oh no they don't... the pass it along to the end-user/buyer)
What happens when the "rich people" have had enough and say to hell with it?

It's these "rich people" (which I think to some politicians means anyone making more than $60K/yr.) that are the best at creating jobs, starting companies, growing businesses, etc., so why make any more burdens on them? If you torque them off enough, they'll just say screw it and cut way back or give up all together.

I know a guy that a couple of years ago had about 12 people working for him and he had a very successful plumbing business and paid his workers a top wage, but the ever-increasing taxes, regulations and insurance requirements became so onerous he gave it all up and now works solo... he turned everyone that worked for him loose.

These same politicians seem to think that the the tax system in this country is an unlimited resource from which they can tap into in order to spend money like crazy. Also, the politicians that we elect seem to use the quantity of new laws and regulations that they bring about as a measure of success; they never take into account how much they are draining the resources of people and businesses alike.
Thats a good question, and I have to wonder how much loss and damage has been done to our economy as a result of companies and individuals moving their money overseas. Outsourcing and tax havens are examples. No doubt Microsoft is not going anywhere, but at least part of its wealth does not reside in the United States as a result of the punishment that goes on here.
__________________
http://www.fairtax.org

Elminate all taxes on income and replace with a national sales tax.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2007
AjaxPress's Avatar
AjaxPress AjaxPress is offline
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Aug 2006
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 4,470

United_States     Ethiopia

Re: What happens when the "rich people" bail out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jviehe View Post
Thats a good question, and I have to wonder how much loss and damage has been done to our economy as a result of companies and individuals moving their money overseas. Outsourcing and tax havens are examples. No doubt Microsoft is not going anywhere, but at least part of its wealth does not reside in the United States as a result of the punishment that goes on here.
Halliburton just couldn't bear the cost of doing business in the U.S. so they moved to the Emerites. Now they don't have to follow as many pesky American laws like not doing business with Iran.
__________________
Is our children learning? -George W. Bush

"I think—tide turning—see, as I remember—I was raised in the desert, but tides kind of—it's easy to see a tide turn—did I say those words?"—Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006

"[T]he illiteracy level of our children are appalling."—Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004

Last edited by AjaxPress; 06-01-2007 at 11:52 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2007
Americano Americano is offline
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Feb 2007
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 5,661

   
Re: What happens when the "rich people" bail out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AjaxPress View Post
Halliburton just couldn't bear the cost of doing business in the U.S. so they moved to the Emerites. Now they don't have to follow as many pesky American laws like not doing business with Iran.
Halliburton is a mere tip of that iceberg. The only industrial expansion in the US is by foreign companies servicing US consumer markets. They generally locate in rural areas where local politicians give away the tax base to get low paid jobs, dominate their markets and remove all profits to their home countries. Any company with global markets has already fled the US to serve those and US markets, along with their capital. We got fat and lazy, pushed the general US standard of living to an unsustainable level and now we're going to pay the price.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2007
underboss's Avatar
underboss underboss is offline
County Executive
Ron Paul Revolutionary

 
Member Since: May 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 375

United_States    
Re: What happens when the "rich people" bail out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
Society provides the environment necessary to accumulate wealth, and rich people are the ones that benefit most from society. They should contribute more. Not to mention it's in their own interest to protect the system which allows them to be rich in the first place.
Your views are shared by Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, George Soros, Ben Cohen (Ben and Jerry's), The Rockerfellers and others who are considered amongst the wealthiest people in the world.

The only ones bailing out are the thieves who are stealing and swindling US taxpayers, using immoral and illegal means to obtain wealth and those government folks who are helping to making it happen.
__________________
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
~Thomas Jefferson

"There is Still No Such Thing As a Fair Tax"
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2007
jviehe's Avatar
jviehe jviehe is offline
President

 
Member Since: Jan 2004
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 11,637

United_States    
Re: What happens when the "rich people" bail out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by underboss View Post
Your views are shared by Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, George Soros, Ben Cohen (Ben and Jerry's), The Rockerfellers and others who are considered amongst the wealthiest people in the world.

The only ones bailing out are the thieves who are stealing and swindling US taxpayers, using immoral and illegal means to obtain wealth and those government folks who are helping to making it happen.
No doubt, the people you listed also have at least part of their money not in the United States, and probably in a tax shelter offshore. This means their money is not here working to increase the productivity of the country. Lets say that 1% of the wealth that citizens own in this country is offshore. That equates to at least billions, if not trillions of dollars. Were the country more favorable to keeping wealth here, that money could be providing jobs and increasing the wealth of all.
__________________
http://www.fairtax.org

Elminate all taxes on income and replace with a national sales tax.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2007
Americano Americano is offline
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Feb 2007
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 5,661

   
Re: What happens when the "rich people" bail out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jviehe View Post
No doubt, the people you listed also have at least part of their money not in the United States, and probably in a tax shelter offshore. This means their money is not here working to increase the productivity of the country. Lets say that 1% of the wealth that citizens own in this country is offshore. That equates to at least billions, if not trillions of dollars. Were the country more favorable to keeping wealth here, that money could be providing jobs and increasing the wealth of all.
Providing jobs? What jobs, service sector? There's no demand for capital in the US.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC6
Copyright © 2000 - 2008 U.S. Politics Online