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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2007
danielpalos danielpalos is offline
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Economic theory and politics.

What is the opinion, of a general sales tax that is based on individual transactions? In the example of electronic transactions, a market friendly transaction fee could be included as a form tax. Hypothetically (I haven't crunched any numbers.) that form of taxation could be less than one cent per transaction.

Ideally, other forms of direct taxation could be reduced, to the extent revenue is offset by a transaction based revenue model.

Last edited by danielpalos; 06-03-2007 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 06-07-2007
liberty1776 liberty1776 is offline
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Re: Economic theory and politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
What is the opinion, of a general sales tax that is based on individual transactions? In the example of electronic transactions, a market friendly transaction fee could be included as a form tax. Hypothetically (I haven't crunched any numbers.) that form of taxation could be less than one cent per transaction.

Ideally, other forms of direct taxation could be reduced, to the extent revenue is offset by a transaction based revenue model.
Why don't we just completly eliminate all taxes at all levels?
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2007
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Evil_inKarlate Evil_inKarlate is offline
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Re: Economic theory and politics.

Bad ideas don't become good ideas just because one throws the words "market friendly" in front of them.

Tho I must say of your various ideas put forth, this one Is a good idea, at least in theory. Unfortunately, in practice, any new tax that reduces an existing tax does so only temporarily and turns into a de facto tax increase. That's not so much a problem with your idea, as a problem with the system you want to apply it to.

Unless we can manage to reduce spending first, true tax reform will probably only be accomplished by a revolution of some sort. To avoid social and/or economic upheaval, any Major changes would need to be phased in (or out), but with government control changing potentially every 2 years and corruption running rampant, such a phased approach would end up derailed. We many not need to outright overthrow (or, by some measures, reinstate) the government; we could get by with just a Lot of people to waking up from their apathy and look for real solutions rather than ear-candy. (Unfortunately?,) I don't see any of these happening any time soon.
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Old 06-08-2007
danielpalos danielpalos is offline
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Re: Economic theory and politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liberty1776 View Post
Why don't we just completly eliminate all taxes at all levels?
How is the public sector going to generate revenue to provide for the common Defense and the general Welfare?
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2007
danielpalos danielpalos is offline
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Re: Economic theory and politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_inKarlate View Post
Bad ideas don't become good ideas just because one throws the words "market friendly" in front of them.

Tho I must say of your various ideas put forth, this one Is a good idea, at least in theory. Unfortunately, in practice, any new tax that reduces an existing tax does so only temporarily and turns into a de facto tax increase. That's not so much a problem with your idea, as a problem with the system you want to apply it to.

Unless we can manage to reduce spending first, true tax reform will probably only be accomplished by a revolution of some sort. To avoid social and/or economic upheaval, any Major changes would need to be phased in (or out), but with government control changing potentially every 2 years and corruption running rampant, such a phased approach would end up derailed. We many not need to outright overthrow (or, by some measures, reinstate) the government; we could get by with just a Lot of people to waking up from their apathy and look for real solutions rather than ear-candy. (Unfortunately?,) I don't see any of these happening any time soon.
Its just an idea. I think it could work to raise revenue for the public sector, and lower the burden of direct taxation to private individuals.
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Old 06-08-2007
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erikvv erikvv is offline
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Re: Economic theory and politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
How is the public sector going to generate revenue to provide for the common Defense and the general Welfare?
We will need to make a PR campaign to sell these products to the people. Also we will rename the congress to "board of directors" and the president to CEO. The organization will be sold on the NYSE and there will be real fair representation in the board of directors - meaning every share buys you a vote.

Neocon heaven!
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Old 06-08-2007
liberty1776 liberty1776 is offline
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Re: Economic theory and politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erikvv View Post
We will need to make a PR campaign to sell these products to the people. Also we will rename the congress to "board of directors" and the president to CEO. The organization will be sold on the NYSE and there will be real fair representation in the board of directors - meaning every share buys you a vote.

Neocon heaven!
This is even worse than the current system!

Under my system there is no public sector. Everthing is done in the private sector. The private sector can do things MUCH better than the state.

Don't freak out when you hear that I want to privitize national defense. It only sounds wierd because we are not used to it. If shoes were currently in the public sector, and I proposed to have them provided in the private sector, you might say, "Hey, how are poor people going to get shoes? How will we know what shoes to make? How will we know how many to make?" These are all questions that the market will answer for defense.

The private market ALWAYS does things better than the state- ALWAYS.

Would you want gov't in charge of making your clothes? Probably not, so why do you want it in charge of defense?
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Old 06-09-2007
danielpalos danielpalos is offline
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Re: Economic theory and politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erikvv View Post
We will need to make a PR campaign to sell these products to the people. Also we will rename the congress to "board of directors" and the president to CEO. The organization will be sold on the NYSE and there will be real fair representation in the board of directors - meaning every share buys you a vote.

Neocon heaven!
If we had enough capital, we could probably ask the UN to charter a city somewhere, and implement those ideas.
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Old 06-09-2007
danielpalos danielpalos is offline
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Re: Economic theory and politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liberty1776 View Post
This is even worse than the current system!

Under my system there is no public sector. Everthing is done in the private sector. The private sector can do things MUCH better than the state.

Don't freak out when you hear that I want to privitize national defense. It only sounds wierd because we are not used to it. If shoes were currently in the public sector, and I proposed to have them provided in the private sector, you might say, "Hey, how are poor people going to get shoes? How will we know what shoes to make? How will we know how many to make?" These are all questions that the market will answer for defense.

The private market ALWAYS does things better than the state- ALWAYS.

Would you want gov't in charge of making your clothes? Probably not, so why do you want it in charge of defense?
Maybe you can start by advocating for privatization of our current "Wars" on drugs and terror.
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Old 06-09-2007
Fozmonster Fozmonster is offline
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Re: Economic theory and politics.

Do you guys pay VAT - Value Added Tax ( UK 17.5%) on all the goods you buy? I don't remember paying much when I was over in NYC....
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Old 06-09-2007
Americano Americano is offline
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Re: Economic theory and politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozmonster View Post
Do you guys pay VAT - Value Added Tax ( UK 17.5%) on all the goods you buy? I don't remember paying much when I was over in NYC....
The US is suffering from fiscal irresponsibility due to poor management and leadership has yet to find a method such as adequate taxation to pay its own way for extravagances that allow gross political corruption without disturbing the populace that empowers them. Additional taxation brings pointed questions regarding leadership quality.
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Old 06-10-2007
liberty1776 liberty1776 is offline
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Re: Economic theory and politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Maybe you can start by advocating for privatization of our current "Wars" on drugs and terror.
No, I wouldn't advocate for this. If there was no government, there would be none of these "wars." There would be no War on Drugs; War on Poverty; War on Terror; etc.

I don't really get the point of your post.
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Old 06-10-2007
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Luap Luap is offline
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Re: Economic theory and politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liberty1776 View Post
The private market ALWAYS does things better than the state- ALWAYS.
By this do you mean that free markets work perfectly or do you mean that they can correct their own problems more efficiently than a public sector can? Either way, I have to wonder: how do you know? In theory, the private sector does sound like it can solve all of society's problems, but in application, is that true? Some blame the East Asian crisis and the ensuing troubles on a lack of regulation--you think otherwise?
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Old 06-10-2007
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Malvolio Malvolio is offline
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Re: Economic theory and politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luap View Post
By this do you mean that free markets work perfectly or do you mean that they can correct their own problems more efficiently than a public sector can? Either way, I have to wonder: how do you know? In theory, the private sector does sound like it can solve all of society's problems, but in application, is that true? Some blame the East Asian crisis and the ensuing troubles on a lack of regulation--you think otherwise?
Not even in economic theory. There are certain cases that can lead to a market failure. Like with public goods, natural monopolies, external effects, moral hazard, etc. Markets are very powerful tools, but we can't expect them to solve all problems. And that's the reason why there always will be the need of a limited public sector and government regulations.
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Old 06-10-2007
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Luap Luap is offline
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Re: Economic theory and politics.

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Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
Not even in economic theory. There are certain cases that can lead to a market failure. Like with public goods, natural monopolies, external effects, moral hazard, etc. Markets are very powerful tools, but we can't expect them to solve all problems. And that's the reason why there always will be the need of a limited public sector and government regulations.
That's the belief I hold as well, so I'm always curious about people that express confidence in extreme laissez-faire systems. It seems like the neo-liberal ideologues that began the notion of a perfect free market have been sidelined by "Third Way" politicians or even those with a more Keynesian approach, with good reason in my opinion.
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