well thats one thing. a lunch break is a lunch break - and its not paid. so if I work a 37.5 hour week thats for the hours I work - my lunch is in my own time. so I start at say 8.30 - and I finish at 5. one hour in between is my unpaid lunch break (by law a minimum of 30 mins).

hang on a minute though. I see people hear glibly talking about being on USPO IN THEIR EMPLOYERS TIME. I mean Speak - is THAT working?

I don't have time to look at this site when I'm at work - because when I'm at work I'm there to do what I'm paid to do. And I'm busy. I'd rather have the free time to spend at home, or enjoying holidays, than work less hard at work and have to fill in time by net surfing.

In fact - MY work ethic would not allow me to use the net for personal net surfing at work, thus allowing my employer to pay me for doing nothing that benefits his business. That would border on criminal behaviour for me, and I would not feel good about myself as a worker - its almost (for me) the equivalent of STEALING from an employer. In fact - if I had the time to do that I would feel that my employer didn't really need me. Does this suggest I'm lazy?

Am I really such a terrible person that Steve is justified in calling me lazy just because I enjoy more holidays, and think its a fair exchange for working hard when I'm at work?

well me too - but as you can see from what I stated above, I don't think the either/or comparison is quite valid - as you can have one weeks leave per year and still have a total work output that is less than a person who has months of extra time off. In fact - one of the reasons we have so much time off is because it is supposed to INCREASE our productivity.

Yea, I believe the law here (at least in Virginia, not sure if this is a Federal law or not) is a 15 minute break for every 4 hours of work. I work 8:45 - 4:45, and usually take my paid hour lunch around 1 or so (I always like coming back with only a couple hours left of work).


Well, certainly not. Heck, I'm at work right now, myself. The thing is, the last two days have been a bit slow here and if I wasn't posting here, I would be sitting at my desk staring off into space. I'm completely caught up with everything and I'm simply waiting for some people to call me back so I can continue work on my 'main task'.

However, work always comes before this site. There will be incredibly busy weeks where I don't have the opportunity to sign in here at all, and that's not a problem. It's work, not play.
I hardly call it 'stealing'. I am doing my work quite well, actually. I think the fact that I've never been fired, never been reprimanded or even given a hard look by any of my bosses ever can attest to that. I have a list of professional references a mile long.

And don't get me wrong, I never personally accused you of being lazy. I was simply saying that a lot of Americans view other countries that get more time off as being lazy, or having a less dedicated work ethic than most Americans.
No, I don't agree with just about anything Steve says.

I know what you're saying.

It's quite difficult to compare these things, overall. There is quite a lot of variation between companies here in the states, some offer very little time off, some offer insane amounts of time off. Some people work incredibly hard, some people slack off every chance they get. It's hard to compare because there really isn't one single American work ethic and one single Australian work ethic. I wouldn't be too surprised if there were Americans who had better benefits and holiday time than their Australian counterparts and vice versa.

In addition, from what I've seen, the per capita income for your average American is quite a bit higher than the per capita income of your average Australian, so it's certainly a trade off. You guys get more time off, but less money to spend on it, while we have more money, but no time to spend it.

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"Anyone that needs what they want, and doesn’t want what they need
I want nothing to do with
And to do what I want
And to do what I please
Is first on my to-do list"
-Gnarls Barkley, "Going On" lyrics

But people like her are supposed to be jealous and envious of life in the USA.

I'm not having a go at you. For me personally though, MY work ethic wouldn't allow me to do that. I do have down time, and I use that time to research work related material. But having said that, my position may be one where I can do that more easily, as there are always things that are relevant to improving my understanding, and which can help me improve as a worker.

No Speak, I know you didn't, and I would never think you did. But I agree - there is this rather narrow way of looking at things out there, which causes us to generalise about others. Steve was an example of an American making generalisations about other people because our work practices may be different from the norm in the US. I make generalisations as well - because SOME workers in the US have appalling working conditions, I interpreted this as being more normal than it is. Obviously it varies. It works both ways.

But it IS really offensive to call people lazy because they value leisure time, and believe that everyone should have equal rights to leisure.

LOL - well I'm not going to comment here

yes it is. but I think its interesting to be aware of what workers in other countries have as their basic rights. And I also think its important that those who run around thinking we're all jealous of people in the US come to terms with the fact that yours (ie the US's) way of doing things ISN'T the only way - and it may not be the way that suits everybody. And that maybe there are things we wouldhave to give up if we came to the US - and often these things counteract the 'jealousy' argument.

per capita is tricky.

the US also has the worst distribution of income in the western world (well - worst is a term I use - but maybe many Americans might think thats a good thing - and that some of those CEOs really ARE worth megamillions). This influences the 'per capita' income.

A mean income may be a better measure to indicate how well off American workers are vs Australian workers.

maybe I'm too lazy to be jealous - probably takes up too much energy

Those people aren't expecting to work hard and be rewarded for it?

Being rewarded for working hard is fine.

People like Daisy expect to be rewarded just for showing up...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

The problem is that America has no opportunity to expand its economy and create jobs that are worthy of hard work. America's economic standing and standard of living are slowly being destroyed by the conservative ideological principles our government has decided to embrace over the past few decades.

Our economically vulnerable status has caused us to look towards military options in the hopes of keeping and establishing more control over the world's economy and resources. Iraq is a prime example of this. Iraq has many oil fields and our attempt to control this precious resource has failed miserably. If we continue down this road, we can expect to see higher unemployment, a failing economy, and eventually the downfall that many people have been expecting.

However, let's speculate the war in Iraq does not economically strangle us in debt and cause mass chaos throughout the political structure of our country. Oil will eventually peak around 2010. After that, oil production will slowly decrease until there is none left. America is totally unprepared for such a disaster.

Having workers who "want to work hard" will not matter come 2050. And, saying that all workers who expect a decent life aren't lazy. They are sensible and expect what should be rightfully accorded to them.

Wow. What bullshit.

You're either equating someone's ability with the war in Iraq and oil, or you're trying to derail the thread.

I got the job I've got now, and the benefits I have now, while we were at war in Iraq. You panty-waste libs are simply reviled at the very thought of someone having to work to better their situation, and the situation of their family.

In either case, your entire post is total bullshit.

By the way, I've still yet to see a single reason why working hard to improve your situation isn't a preferable way to go...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

I'm not sure I agree with your date of peak oil, that's a commodity driven by exploration costs and what the world can afford per crude barrel has yet to be determined, but agree with the the military option being a dead-end. With a constant 5% annual increase just to keep the enormous defense budget updated and significant supplementary appropriations for active war(s), plus debt service on past, present and future expansion, it will eat our fiscal lunch. To say nothing of upcoming social net demands with an aging population and a pure service economy.

America is a funny place. We have created this illusion for the world that America is the land of opportunity and if you work hard you will get ahead. Then we place rules that restrict the number of people allowed legally into the country so low that there is simply not enough visas available. And then when people sneak in to do the hard jobs that most American's think they are too good for we start getting really angry about it and start calling for the construction of fences and walls to keep them out. This makes no sense to me.

America of the work hard and get ahead doesn't exist. It hasn't for years.

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Nonsense.

Three and a half years ago, I was greatly unsatisfied with my job, my pay, my benefits; you name it. I didn't adopt this "woe is me" attitude that so many seem to have done, I changed my situation. I now have a job that I love, with benefits and a salary that are far better than any job I've had in the past.

This topic has nothing to do with illegal immigration or "jobs Americans won't do", and the attempts to make it that are stupid and weak...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

To interject your personal experience as the norm happens to be deceptive. Many of us could post personal experiences that make you sound like an underachiever but they certainly aren't the norm. Try getting your head out of the sand and look at national numbers where wage stagnation combined with inflation and little or no opportunity for improvement is the norm for a majority of Americans. The age of widespread prosperity in the US left the room quite some time ago.

I never offered my personal situation as "the norm". In fact, "the norm" seems to be a bunch of panty-waist bed-wetters wanting as much as they can get for free, because they're unwilling to expend a little bit of energy and do something for themselves. That's the norm...

Then again, without knowing what my personal situation is, other than it's better than it used to be, you're only talking out your ass.

Again...

The reason "widespread prosperity" is gone is because we now have a rather large contingent of pussies who want the government to provide for their every need. Still, there are those of us who understand that if you truly want something, it's best to go after it yourself, because it'll mean so much more when you get it.

I've lost count of how many times I've asked this, but you continue to dodge it:

Why is working hard and improving your personal situation not the preferable way to go?

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

The America of 'start out as the mail boy and end up a rich CEO' is pretty much gone, but the America of 'start out flipping burgers and take night classes and otherwise apply yourself and end up making lower six digits' is still around.

The age of getting ahead by getting an hourly job and putting in your 40 hrs has indeed left, but national numbers don't reflect the fact that there are people continually getting ahead and falling behind based on various factors, with hard work and good planning being a couple strong plus points.


But addressing the OP, I'm not sure how many of these are legislated and how many are traditional, but here's how our minimum benefits compare. (Question - do the OP benefits apply to everything from a part-time burger-flipper to a CEO? We have differing rules for part-time, full-time hourly, full-time salaried, and commission pay. Here, I'm assuming full time.)

- 10 paid public holidays per year,
6 holidays, excepting service and retail workers, who may get less. Most places they are paid, and most places have 7-10 holidays.

- 4 weeks paid annual leave,
Most places start with 2 weeks paid annual leave, adding an additional week every 5 years, I don't think it's legislated, but it seems universal in non-governmental jobs in my experience.

- 17 and 1/2 % loading on (annual leave) holiday pay (ie holiday pay = normal pay+17.5%)
Most places pay +50% if you're hourly and work on a holiday like Christmas. There is no bonus for paid vacation; the paid vacation is considered a bonus itself.

- 8 and 2/3 weeks paid long service leave after ten years with the same employer
None. Some employers may have tenure or anniversary policies, but there are no legal requirements.

- 10 days paid sick leave per year (cumulative)
None? Most places allow 3-10 paid sick days annually, with case-by-case allowances for more if you haven't abused the privilege, but I don't think this is legislated.

- 1 years parenting leave, with a guaranteed right to return to the same, or an equivalent job, on the same rate of pay?
3 months equivalent parenting leave, per birth (not sure how they handle multiples). Can also be used in some other circumstances, such as a parent in failing health.

- I won't go into minimum wages, because I know I'll learn well above $13.74 per hour.
Our minimum is about half that (except where local or state laws dictate higher minimums), but if you can find and hold a full-time job, it's exceedingly rare to make minimum wage for more than 6 months.

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