minimum conditions for workers in the US? - Page 3 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

JHC · #31 (**permalink**) 10-01-2007

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NewYork Times 1999 Americans put in the longest hours among workers in industrialized countries, according to a report released today.

But increasingly efficient Europeans and Japanese workers are chipping away at the United States lead in productivity -- the amount of goods and services produced for each hour worked -- according to the 600-page study by the International Labor Organization.
...American workers continue to outstrip their European and Asian counterparts, producing an average $49,905 of goods in 1996 -- more than other countries for which statistics were available. But the gap in some cases was narrow. The French lead the Europeans, producing an average $47,958 for each worker, followed by Germany at $46,100 and Britain at $38,890. In Japan, the average worker produced $39,434 in 1996.

In comparing productivity gains, however, the United States was behind its rivals in the period studied. The country gained 22 percent between 1980 and 1996. That fell short of the gains of 141 percent in Thailand, 43 percent in Japan and 30 percent in France, Germany and England in the same period, the study found.

The article if a fair bit outdated but the trend has continued. Of the most efficient economies in regard to GDP for hours worked, the United States now ranks 7th.

In addition, the ranks of those falling into poverty in the United States, has increased every year but one since 2000. Meanwhile, an increasing percentage of the nations wealth is held by the elite few. This is not a statement of social equity, but a reflection of an inefficient economy.

I suggest to Daisym, that she stay where she is and perhaps a few of us will be joining her.
Or perhaps, a few of us might attempt to immigrate to France where the defined work week is currently 35 hours.

JHC · #32 (**permalink**) 10-01-2007

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Originally Posted by Evil_inKarlate

The America of 'start out as the mail boy and end up a rich CEO' is pretty much gone, but the America of 'start out flipping burgers and take night classes and otherwise apply yourself and end up making lower six digits' is still around.

The age of getting ahead by getting an hourly job and putting in your 40 hrs has indeed left, but national numbers don't reflect the fact that there are people continually getting ahead and falling behind based on various factors, with hard work and good planning being a couple strong plus points.

But addressing the OP, I'm not sure how many of these are legislated and how many are traditional, but here's how our minimum benefits compare. (Question - do the OP benefits apply to everything from a part-time burger-flipper to a CEO? We have differing rules for part-time, full-time hourly, full-time salaried, and commission pay. Here, I'm assuming full time.)

It should be noted, that only two of the following are mandated in the United States for the private sector and one of those, you got just a smidge wrong, (FMLA).

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- 10 paid public holidays per year,
6 holidays, excepting service and retail workers, who may get less. Most places they are paid, and most places have 7-10 holidays.

As noted, the 7 National Holidays are mandated only for the public sector, (government jobs). 6 are generally accepted standard holidays for full time private sector employees, (the exception is Martin Luther King Junior's birthday which is rarely recognized as the 7th holiday in the private sector outside of banks).

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- 4 weeks paid annual leave,
Most places start with 2 weeks paid annual leave, adding an additional week every 5 years, I don't think it's legislated, but it seems universal in non-governmental jobs in my experience.

"Vacation", "sick time" and "PTO" (paid time off), are not legislated in the United States private sector in any way shape or form (except in the case of FMLA-see below). "Most places" does not apply to many hourly workers. "Full time" is generally defined as greater than 35 hours per week, anything less generally does not qualify for any paid time off benefits...including sick time.

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- 17 and 1/2 % loading on (annual leave) holiday pay (ie holiday pay = normal pay+17.5%)
Most places pay +50% if you're hourly and work on a holiday like Christmas. There is no bonus for paid vacation; the paid vacation is considered a bonus itself.

- 8 and 2/3 weeks paid long service leave after ten years with the same employer
None. Some employers may have tenure or anniversary policies, but there are no legal requirements.

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- 10 days paid sick leave per year (cumulative)
None? Most places allow 3-10 paid sick days annually, with case-by-case allowances for more if you haven't abused the privilege, but I don't think this is legislated.

Sounds about right and of course, does not apply to those ineligible for benefits - generally less than 35 hours per week.

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- 1 years parenting leave, with a guaranteed right to return to the same, or an equivalent job, on the same rate of pay?
3 months equivalent parenting leave, per birth (not sure how they handle multiples). Can also be used in some other circumstances, such as a parent in failing health.

The Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA) is the ONLY federal mandate of its kind. It requires certain employers to allow eligible workers to take up to 12 weeks unpaid, job-protected leave each year. FMLA applies to all:

* public agencies, including state, local and federal employers, local education agencies (schools), and
* private-sector employers who employed 50 or more employees in 20 or more workweeks in the current or preceding calendar year and who are engaged in commerce or in any industry or activity affecting commerce — including joint employers and successors of covered employers.

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- I won't go into minimum wages, because I know I'll learn well above $13.74 per hour.
Our minimum is about half that (except where local or state laws dictate higher minimums), but if you can find and hold a full-time job, it's exceedingly rare to make minimum wage for more than 6 months.

And a different, lower rate applies to wait staff in restaurants.

EvilGenius · #33 (**permalink**) 10-01-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

This topic has nothing to do with illegal immigration or "jobs Americans won't do", and the attempts to make it that are stupid and weak...

The topic of the thread is : minimum conditions for workers in the US? The OP was opening for consideration the conditions of working in the United States.

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I keep hearing about how people like me hate the US because we are jealous.

well.

maybe you're right. so I'm thinking about applying to migrate to the US.

But before I do that - I'm wondering what I can expect as a worker in the US.

Aren't the "immigration laws" and "what jobs Americans won't do" connected to the working conditions of the United States? The illusion of the United States labor market is very much a part and parcel of the reasons that so many people want to come to the United States to work. To ignore the whole picture for simplicities sake is to avoid dealing with the real issues.

Answer me a question Steve - Why are so many people willing to come to America even if they have to do so illegally? What motivates them to move to America? What motivates them to cross deadly deserts and possibly deal with hardened criminals to arrive here?

I think it is the image that we have crafted and fed to the rest of the world. What do you think it is?

Evil Genius

Cato · #34 (**permalink**) 10-01-2007

If being a worker in America sucks so bad, why are so many people coming here to work?

bigTlilODD · #35 (**permalink**) 10-01-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisym

I keep hearing about how people like me hate the US because we are jealous.

well.

maybe you're right. so I'm thinking about applying to migrate to the US.

But before I do that - I'm wondering what I can expect as a worker in the US.

Can I expect, as an absolute minimum, the following:

10 paid public holidays per year,

4 weeks paid annual leave,

17 and 1/2 % loading on (annual leave) holiday pay (ie holiday pay = normal pay+17.5%)

8 and 2/3 weeks paid long service leave after ten years with the same employer

10 days paid sick leave per year (cumulative)

1 years parenting leave, with a guaranteed right to return to the same, or an equivalent job, on the same rate of pay?

I won't go into minimum wages, because I know I'll learn well above $13.74 per hour.

so - will I be guaranteed these minimum conditions of employment if I find work in the US?

Are you saying this is what the kids at McDonalds and the car wash or the ice cream parlor's get in Australia?

JHC · #36 (**permalink**) 10-01-2007

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Originally Posted by Cato

If being a worker in America sucks so bad, why are so many people coming here to work?

From the US Census Bureau 2006, approximately 37,547,315 foreign born people live in the United States.
Of that, 20,088,292 come from Latin America. Thats nearly 54%

65,000 came from Australia. .175%. Not quite two tenths of one percent.

France was not quite four tenths of one percent.

England contributed a whopping 1%

10,052,929 (about 26%) came from Asia: India = 1,519,157, Viet Nam=1,117,800, Korea=1,023,956, China=1,906,341

9% from the Caribbean

Does it look like most of our immigrants come from really poor countries and mostly over land?

Guess what the demographics of immigrants look like in Australia, England, France, and other relatively wealthy/stable European countries? About the same - the very poor and political refugees that are relatively close.

To immigrate to Australia you either have to take a boat or an airplane ride. Thats a significant obstacle, yet they come anyway.

In this thread, Daisym is comparing Australian working conditions to US working conditions.

JHC · #37 (**permalink**) 10-01-2007

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Originally Posted by bigTlilODD

Are you saying this is what the kids at McDonalds and the car wash or the ice cream parlor's get in Australia?

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business.gov.au home page

Most workers are paid for public holidays, except for contract workers and casual employees who are paid for hours worked. Other paid leave, for most workers except those mentioned above, should include annual or recreation leave, sick leave and long service leave.

The award or agreement covering employees will have information about their leave entitlements and explain the pay arrangement for public holidays.

The new federal workplace relations system that will affect up to 85 per cent of employees. As an employer, you will need to determine if this legislation affects you and if so, what you need to comply with.

Employees covered by the new federal legislation are eligible to receive the minimum leave entitlements set out in the Australian Fair Pay and Conditions Standard.

"Casual employees" are temporary workers.

Quote:

Workplace Rights and Rules au.gov
Minimum pay rates

Federal workplace law provides for a federal minimum wage that no worker over the age of 21 can be paid less than.
...
Leave entitlements

What leave entitlements are there?

Under the Australian Fair Pay and Conditions Standard all permanent employees are entitled to:

* 4 weeks paid annual leave per year;
* Ten days paid personal leave (including sick leave and carer’s leave), with provision for an additional two days of unpaid carer’s leave per occasion and an additional two days of paid compassionate leave per occasion; and
* 52 weeks of unpaid parental leave (including maternity, paternity and adoption leave).

Shift workers are entitled to additional annual leave. On top of the regular amount of annual leave, shift workers are also entitled to an additional amount of annual leave equivalent to 1/52 of the nominal hours worked over a 12 month period.
...
Maximum working hours

Workplace law provides that a worker can not be required or requested to work more than 38 hours per week, plus reasonable additional hours,

A worker and an employer can agree in writing to average out the number of hours over a 12 month period or less.

The law sets out a number of factors that need to be consider in order to determine whether additional hours are reasonable. These can include: ...
What public holiday protections are there?

The right not to work on Public holidays is protected under federal workplace law.

An employer may ask a worker to work on a public holiday however the worker may refuse the request and take the day off it the worker has ‘reasonable grounds’ for doing so.

If a worker refuses to work a public holiday on reasonable grounds the employer must not: sack, threaten to sack, injure, or threaten to injure the worker, or in any way prejudice the worker’s job because of their refusal to work a public holiday. Serious penalties may apply for such behaviour. The Workplace Ombudsman has the power to enforce compliance with these protections and will independently and impartially investigate all complaints.

Hope that helps.

danielpalos · #38 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007

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I keep hearing about how people like me hate the US because we are jealous.

I don't hate you, Daisy; even when you are jealous.

danielpalos · #39 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007

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Originally Posted by Steve

Yeah, it's the nerve that tells me that people who aren't willing to work for something, but expect everything, are people who deserve nothing.

People like you...

I am willing to work. I only expect to be compensated in a market friendly manner. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work that way under our current system.

I disagree with your opinion that any US labor market participant, deserves nothing, in a mixed market economy.

This is not a specific come-on for Daisy. I am merely arguing economic policy that best promotes and provides for the general Welfare of the United States.

danielpalos · #40 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007

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Our "new" economic structure places the shareholder in the role of the customer - consumers are not who to please anymore - the shareholder is....and large shareholders are elitist "silver spooners" disconnected from a society that they couldn't give a rats ass about.

I think it is more of a problem with supply-side economics. Perhaps, demand-side economics is the missing component for our current economic policies.

danielpalos · #41 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

Being rewarded for working hard is fine.

People like Daisy expect to be rewarded just for showing up...

Some people expect to be rewarded with a job at a day labor office, just for showing up.

danielpalos · #42 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007

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I don't see why an American shouldn't entitled to as much as I am, if they work as hard as I do.

I think it depends on the private profit motives of the employer and the employee, and our 9A.

I also think that any first world economy should have social safety nets to prevent third world conditions; in order to maintain first world status.

danielpalos · #43 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007

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Yeah, it's the nerve that tells me that people who aren't willing to work for something, but expect everything, are people who deserve nothing.

How does that view account for capitalists who merely use working capital, and don't have to work for anything, themselves; but, can afford to stay home and smoke dope all day long, if they have sufficient capital?

danielpalos · #44 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007

How about a hypothetical "minimum wage" that pays people to not provide labor input to the economy? Then, we could rightfully claim that other people are jealous, and we don't have a problem with it.

Steve · #45 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007

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Originally Posted by danielpalos

How does that view account for capitalists who merely use working capital, and don't have to work for anything, themselves; but, can afford to stay home and smoke dope all day long, if they have sufficient capital?

Of course, that money just fell out of the fucking sky.

I know only one person who is, what I would describe as, digustingly rich. He drives a Bentley or a Maybach (depending on his mood), wears a watch that's so high-end you've never even heard of the brand, has a "house staff", a jet, and hasn't seen anything that would be even remotely considered an "office" in years.

His first job was working at McDonalds for $3.85 an hour.

He's worked his fucking ass off to get where he is. Why shouldn't he be permitted to let his money earn him more money? Why should he suffer your ridicule for doing so?

Oh, and he hasn't smoked dope since high school...