It's Official - Babyboomers Start Collecting Social Security - Page 3 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

Mrs. M · #31 (**permalink**) 10-17-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by goober

Social Security is probably the most efficient retirement plan on the planet, as far as operating costs go.
It's like a giant insurance company, and it does exactly what it was supposed to do. Before Social Security, being old meant being poor, that has largely ended.
Sure, you need to save for retirement, Social Security provides a floor below which no one can fall.
The problem with private plans is that they don't all work.
There were airline pilots who were going to get 125,000 a year from the company pension plan, except that those plans defaulted and now they get 27000 a year, big difference, there were people who saved a bundle in their 401K, and put it in Enron stock.
Remember, the average return from Wall Street is 6%, that's the average.
It means that when Warren Buffet makes 30% on his billions, or George Soros or Kirk Kerkorian, then other investors make less than 6%, they even lose money, in order for the average return to be 6%.
Who do you think loses? Hint, it's not the wealthy well connected investors, it's the little guys, 90% of investors lose money on their first investment.
With Social Security Reform, that first investment will be their pension plan.
That's the real world, and it's why Social Security is a necessary part of our American experience, that if anything should be expanded.

Great post, goober. May I ask how old you are?

ThorHammer · #32 (**permalink**) 10-17-2007

When it comes to reform of SS, either way some people are going to get "hurt".

Mrs. M · #33 (**permalink**) 10-17-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThorHammer

When it comes to reform of SS, either way some people are going to get "hurt".

But is it fair to hurt those of us that have been paying for 30 years or more?

ThorHammer · #34 (**permalink**) 10-17-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. M

But is it fair to hurt those of us that have been paying for 30 years or more?

Is it fair to have the rest of us support you?

As I said, some people are going to get hurt either way.

Mrs. M · #35 (**permalink**) 10-17-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThorHammer

Is it fair to have the rest of us support you?

As I said, some people are going to get hurt either way.

My generation supported the previous generation and I have no qualms about that. As a matter of fact, I'm GLAD that what I've paid in is helping the elderly now, especially since people like my dad were hardworking men and women that took care of my generation. It wasn't until the younger generation came along that all the whining started about having to take care of the elderly! If my son and daughter ever said to me that what they're paying in now shouldn't support me or their grandparents, I'd knock them into next week!

ThorHammer · #36 (**permalink**) 10-17-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. M

My generation supported the previous generation and I have no qualms about that. As a matter of fact, I'm GLAD that what I've paid in is helping the elderly now, especially since people like my dad were hardworking men and women that took care of my generation. It wasn't until the younger generation came along that all the whining started about having to take care of the elderly! If my son and daughter ever said to me that what they're paying in now shouldn't support me or their grandparents, I'd knock them into next week!

We are getting into more of a philosophical debate here.

I believe that if my parents ever need to be supported in their old age, the only person who should support them is ME and/or my brothers. I wouldn't expect you, your children, or anyone else to pick up the tab. Likewise, I don't think I should have to shell out money to support anyone else unless I choose to. I should not be obligated to at all. Caring for the elderly is not the job of society as a whole.

Oh, and forgive us of the younger generation for whining about wanting the older generation to exercise some individual responsibility. What are we thinking....

Mrs. M · #37 (**permalink**) 10-17-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThorHammer

We are getting into more of a philosophical debate here.

I believe that if my parents ever need to be supported in their old age, the only person who should support them is ME and/or my brothers. I wouldn't expect you, your children, or anyone else to pick up the tab. Likewise, I don't think I should have to shell out money to support anyone else unless I choose to. I should not be obligated to at all. Caring for the elderly is not the job of society as a whole.

Oh, and forgive us of the younger generation for whining about wanting the older generation to exercise some individual responsibility. What are we thinking....

Think of it this way, my two sisters and I have paid into the system for 30+ years (90 combined). My parents are 70 years old, my mother's in poor health and will not likely last more than five years. Both parents have been drawing Social Security for eight years (16 combined). If they both live to be eighty, that would still only be 36 years combined that they receive payments. Looks to me like you're not paying for my parents, my sisters and I have and with some years to spare!

Caring for the elderly shouldn't be a "job" but rather a show of respect.

I'm the "older" generation. What makes you think that we haven't exercised some individual responsibility? My father worked in the same company for 30 years earning an upper middle class income. My late husband worked for the same company for 25 years, placing us in the upper end of middle class. Both had excellent retirement packages, especially when combined with the Social Security they had paid into for years. That IS individual responsibility!

Unfortunately, today, especially for the younger generation, the number of companies that keep employees for more than 10-20 years is growing smaller and smaller so it's today's youth that will have to show personal responsibility and plan their own retirement. Even if we keep Social Security as is, that monthly check isn't enough to retire on if there's no retirement package from an employer.

jviehe · #38 (**permalink**) 10-17-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. M

Being born in 1960, I can't collect my full Social Security benefits until I reach the age of 67. I've worked very little over the past 20 years because my late husband's salary supported the family which means that if I retired on my credits, I'd get very little. He, however, died due to a nursing mistake at the age of 59, having spent the last eight years or so of his life on Social Security Disability. He paid into the system for over 30 years so it's fair to say that he paid in more than he took out. As long as I don't remarry before the age of 60, I can collect from my late husband's benefits and considering that he supported me financially, I think that's fair.
Yet, I've heard all kinds of proposals for reform, with one being eliminate Social Security for those born in 1960 or later. Of course, it'd probably be the death of the career of any politician that voted for that when you consider that it includes five years of the Babyboomer generation. I considerate myself lucky though because my husband made sure that I was taken care of even after his death. And with a pending, practically open/shut lawsuit, I'll have more than what I need for survival. Many women my age aren't that fortunate though and will depend on a small retirement pension and Social Security because we were told when we first started working 30 years or so ago that Social Security would be there. Now you young bucks want to come in here and try to take that security away from us! I've got a son your age and thank God, he understands that his father and I have both paid into the system and we deserve to get some of it back, even if it means that he's paying for it. And btw, by the time he retires, his son will have already been paying into the system for about 30 years.

I read this through and figured out where the problem in this narrative is, which is that "many women your age" listend to the govt. I hope you wont make that mistake again. You are responsible for your life, not the govt.

I agree that you should get your money back, but its too late for that. In order for anyone to get anything, we have to stop the waste right now. Stop collecting money from people working, and let them put it in a real savings acct. Any money going to SS right now is waste and you will never see it.

Mrs. M · #39 (**permalink**) 10-17-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

I read this through and figured out where the problem in this narrative is, which is that "many women your age" listend to the govt. I hope you wont make that mistake again. You are responsible for your life, not the govt.

I agree that you should get your money back, but its too late for that. In order for anyone to get anything, we have to stop the waste right now. Stop collecting money from people working, and let them put it in a real savings acct. Any money going to SS right now is waste and you will never see it.

I don't agree that it's too late. Social Security does need reforming but eliminating for the Babyboomers is wrong especially since we're the last of the those that were able to work in the same job for more than 10 years!

pramjockey · #40 (**permalink**) 10-17-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

Do whatever you want with them as long as you dont take my tax money to pay for it. If that means being homeless, so be it. Suffer the consequences.

Karma's a bitch. When things don't go your way, remember what you said. To the street with you.

jviehe · #41 (**permalink**) 10-17-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by pramjockey

Karma's a bitch. When things don't go your way, remember what you said. To the street with you.

I have a job and a retirement plan. No worries here. Nor will I ask others to pay for any mistakes I make.

goober · #42 (**permalink**) 10-17-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

I have a job and a retirement plan. No worries here. Nor will I ask others to pay for any mistakes I make.

Hey if you don't like America leave, and don't let the door hit you in the ass.
Macedonia has a lower income tax, you'd love it there.

drgoodtrips · #43 (**permalink**) 10-17-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. M

But is it fair to hurt those of us that have been paying for 30 years or more?

To play devil's advocate, is it fair that I'm going to pay SS most of my life, and will never see any money out of it?

pramjockey · #44 (**permalink**) 10-17-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

I have a job and a retirement plan. No worries here. Nor will I ask others to pay for any mistakes I make.

What about random chance?

What happens if you get hit in your car and disabled to the point where you can't work? Do you have enough to support you and the rest of your family for the next 50 years? There are so many examples of people who are being reponsible and making good decisions and still getting screwed.

goober · #45 (**permalink**) 10-17-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThorHammer

We are getting into more of a philosophical debate here.

I believe that if my parents ever need to be supported in their old age, the only person who should support them is ME and/or my brothers. I wouldn't expect you, your children, or anyone else to pick up the tab. Likewise, I don't think I should have to shell out money to support anyone else unless I choose to. I should not be obligated to at all. Caring for the elderly is not the job of society as a whole.

Oh, and forgive us of the younger generation for whining about wanting the older generation to exercise some individual responsibility. What are we thinking....

Nice theory, except that old age meant poverty for most people in practice.

And while you might believe that you and your brothers would take care of your parents, now, while they are self supporting and not a burden, let's see how you'd feel if your parents moved in with you and started handing you a couple of thousand in medical bills each month.
"Son, I shit myself again, come and wipe my ass......"

Social Security isn't just for the retired people, it's for their children, it unburdens them so they can work and be productive.
And the idea isn't that you get back what you put in, it's insurance against growing old, those that live the longest collect the most, far more than they put in, those that die early get nothing, but it also insures spouses, and provides protection in the case of disability.

And it's by far the most efficient insurance program in the world.