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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008
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Re: Free Trade? Nope. Rules change prevents vote on pact

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Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
the exploitation is in and of itself grossly exploited.....this is all politics…if we cannot award an 80% turn around in conditions, etc. I don’t know what to say.

And, If this is the yardstick we are going to use, then I'll start googling worldwide labor practices. In addtion I can tell my onw tales, and parse how we buy a Chinese made toy, or build factories in china, using labor from what amounts to a labor camp. I have been there, I have seen what amounts to nothing more than shacks, housing 30 people, bunk style, cramped, who don’t get paid very well, with zero safety gear or safety prgms, limited living conditions, aid, etc. working every day as they were building venues for the Olympics.
I saw close to the same in the area where in my co. is building a factory. Chengdu and Shanghai are th wprst affenders I have seen.
( Chengdu is a pit).
You want to disuss India?Lets not even go there. Or Pakistan etc.?


This is stupid, and will rebound in a very bad way. As a dem/ rep. whomever you are this is one of the cases of where batting bush around, has transcended the real issue, as this is no longer about free trade and has just become a contest to wound the administration and please a voting block.
I'm familiar (at secon d hand through buyers I know) with conditions in China and I don't agree with our trade policy with china either. I think american consumers deliberately ignore heinous abuses in exchange for cheap t-shirts. I believe that is not only immoral but also plays into the hads of the corporations who wish to move every well paying job to a place where people earn a pittance. And I am not aware of an "80% turnaround" anywhere except in official columbian government claims. Labor leaders still die on a regular basis there and the people who perpetrate those murders are almost never pursued - never mind brought to justice.

Any time we have a chance to do the right thing by a group of foreign workers I'm glad to see it even if other aspects of our lives and policy still encourage the exploitation of people in other countries.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2008
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Re: Free Trade? Nope. Rules change prevents vote on pact

well, its good to see that at leats some bi partisnhip is still alive, and is a testament to how ham handed the cow towing has become.


Democrats for Colombia
April 15, 2008; Page A18
If nothing else, Speaker Nancy Pelosi's ploy last week to change House rules in order to kill the Colombia Free Trade Agreement is exposing how extreme her protectionism is. Yesterday, 35 former senior officials in Democratic Administrations and Democratic Members of Congress signed an open letter urging Congress to pass the Colombia pact.


"We believe this Agreement is in both our vital national security and economic interests," the letter says. "We feel that the treaty should be considered as soon as possible and that any obstacles be quickly and amicably resolved." Good luck with that last point given Ms. Pelosi's eagerness to take orders from the AFL-CIO.

But the men and woman who signed the letter are notable for their prominence in the Clinton and Carter Administrations – which is to say when Democrats were still a free-trading party. The list includes Bernard Aronson, former Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs, whose area of expertise included Colombia. There's also Donna Shalala, former Secretary of HHS, plus Robert Pastor, former director for Latin America on the National Security Council and nobody's idea of a right-winger.

Also Former Secretary of Defense William Cohen and former Deputy Defense Secretary John Hamre; former Congresspersons Lee Hamilton, Dan Glickman, Patricia Schroeder, Steve Solarz, Sam Gibbons and Calvin Dooley, and former Senators Robert Kerrey, Bob Graham and John Breaux.

Yes, we know: Former Members of Congress don't have to vote and face the wrath of the Teamsters. But they do know the national interest, and their three-page letter makes clear the damage Congress will do if it defeats the Colombia FTA.

Democrats for Colombia - WSJ.com
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2008
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Re: Free Trade? Nope. Rules change prevents vote on pact

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Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
Yes, we know: Former Members of Congress don't have to vote and face the wrath of the Teamsters. But they do know the national interest, and their three-page letter makes clear the damage Congress will do if it defeats the Colombia FTA.

Democrats for Colombia - WSJ.com
"Former" politicians have no reason to fear the "wrath" of the teamsters at all. unless you're implying a few union "enforcers" might show up at their doors with brass knuckles. For that matter current dem politicians have little to worry about beyond the occasional primary challenge. What are the teamsters going to do - vote for a republican? In the absence of a party that directly represents workers, the dems have been unions' only possible choice since taft hartley - and of course many dems shafted them then too.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2008
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Re: Free Trade? Nope. Rules change prevents vote on pact

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In a world where national borders are increasingly meaningless for corporations, a deal which encourages the exploitation and abuse of workers anywhere is a bad deal for workers in the US.
I never really understood this. First anything that increases GDP and exports means better conditions in the long run for the nation as a whole while the down side which is much less is just more noticeable because it's in a particular sector and less spread out through society. Also, most people that have these terrible jobs work them because they do not have a better alternative which means that eliminating the benefit of doing business in these countries means they will have nothing at all.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2008
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Re: Free Trade? Nope. Rules change prevents vote on pact

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Originally Posted by timj219 View Post
"Former" politicians have no reason to fear the "wrath" of the teamsters at all. unless you're implying a few union "enforcers" might show up at their doors with brass knuckles. For that matter current dem politicians have little to worry about beyond the occasional primary challenge. What are the teamsters going to do - vote for a republican? In the absence of a party that directly represents workers, the dems have been unions' only possible choice since taft hartley - and of course many dems shafted them then too.
you answered your own question; state election union sppt. money, phone banks, leaflet volunteers being withheld etc. That’s what those in office fear losing, despite the fact that polls show union members themselves, vote anywhere from 25-35% rep. in elections anyway, it’s the money and foot troop sppt. they need most of all.
__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


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