Well Pelosi is going to eliminate the deadline for a free trade vote, by virtue of a rules change so the Columbia trade pact will never come to a vote. The past will never by virtue of this change come to a vote in time to enact its implementation.

The media went bonkers when republicans were going to invoke, what was labeled, the nuclear option ala voting for SC justices etc. We’ll see how they cover this. This type of rules change has never been done before.

The word is Bush has no respect for other nations, doesn’t do enough to make nice etc. Well, 95% of Columbian goods come here at zero tariff, our tariff for goods going to Columbia is 35%, this is a win win. Columbia appears to be an ally in the region. The democrats have had 250 consultations on this bill. There are 9,000 U.S. businesses that export to Colombia, I mean what’s up with that?
And they will be at a huge disadvantage. They will watch as other nations, mostly China I bet, (but not exclusively), take away much of their business with Colombia. The afl-cio is still on the rampage holding the line against times past.
Murders of trade unionists have fallen by almost 80% since 2002, and Uribe has enacted special commissions against such, he enjoys an 80% favorability rating.
Even Ways and Means democrat Charlie Rangel, a free trader is disappointed.
This stinks.
And frankly this kind of skating away from responsibility ala actually going on the record as opposing this pact, is just more of the same slimy Washington BS, and it stinks too.

__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

I think this was a mistake. If we are worried about the economy it would seem one of the first things to do would be to try and promote exporting more of our goods.

__________________
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Pelosi is trying to get w to reverse his killing of the house Trade Adjustment Assistance bill that pays for training US workers whose jobs these trade agreements send overseas. I think she is also pushing to get w to accept teeth in the agreement's worker protections which are merely symbolic in this and all previous trade agreements. I remember reading that labor leaders in columbia have some of the lowest life expectancies on the planet and she's hoping the agreement will have language that forces the columbian government to stop the killing and allow workers to organize.

As for tactics I find the difference between house and senate to be interesting. Pelosi and other house members are defying w on a couple fronts while the senate dems continue to kowtow to republican demands. Senate dem leaders have folded on legislation whenever republicans threaten a veto. And they do so without forcing the republicans to actually carry out the veto.

__________________
A nation of slaves is always prepared to applaud the clemency of their master who, in the abuse of absolute power, does not proceed to the utmost extremes of injustice and oppression.
Edward Gibbon

Not only good for our country. But so many democrats don't realise that doing business with other countries, keeps the peace between the trading countries.

I doubt we'll ever be attacked by China, because we do so much trading with them. Their economy depends on American consumers.

Peloski--does she really have a brain?

Especially with the dollar so weak right now. American exports to foreign countries would be doing great right now. This in itself would stimulate our economy.

[quote=Oreo;1197709]

I doubt we'll ever be attacked by China, because we do so much trading with them. Their economy depends on American consumers.

[quote]

No it doesn't.

I personally would like to see the assistance for training of US workers and possibly for education as well. As far as the problem with labor in Columbia ultimately that is something they are going to have to fix themselves. If it was possible to get them to agree to it then great but if not then I wouldn't want to scrap the whole trade deal because of it.

__________________
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

I did remark that Uribe ahs addressed the unionist issue. It may not be to everyone’s complete satisfaction but is worlds away from where they started. If we are going to drop any trade agreements with any nations states etc. who's union and worker training is a concern, would wouldn't be trading with anyone. These concerns are pretty much political machinations to protect union interests here.

They have had much time to discuss and annotate this pact, that’s not really what its about, if it were they would allow a vote and even if it fails, which it may, those opposing would be on the record.
They want to change the rules so there is no vote, and it dies. The Media was all over the rep. threatened filibuster nuclear option rules change, this is passing relatively unnoticed....what a surprise.

__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

Trade deals that give preferential treatment to the goods of a country where they kill labor leaders almost as a matter of policy seems like a pretty crappy way to help our economy or supply ourselves with cheap t-shirts. I know its SOP but I can't say I like it.

__________________
A nation of slaves is always prepared to applaud the clemency of their master who, in the abuse of absolute power, does not proceed to the utmost extremes of injustice and oppression.
Edward Gibbon

The thing is that maybe not this exactly but some sort of situation we see as being barbaric happens in pretty much every country that is less developed. We would pretty much have to give up trade with every country outside of the west if we expected them to follow our standards. Again I wouldn't mind trying to get them to agree to the changes but killing the deal altogether wouldn't really be in their interest either.

__________________
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

well heres a fresher look, fleshed out a little as well with some other specifics...Cat has had its oissues ion the past, you would think in the states starting with the I's and O's, the dems would be all for this thing, nope, hence their not wanting to vote on it. Union members need to wake up as well to what their membership is doing with their money and the influence it buys.

Colombia and Cat
April 9, 2008; Page A14
President Bush sent the U.S.-Colombia Free Trade Agreement to Congress on Tuesday, and Democratic leaders greeted it with a Bronx cheer. No surprise there. AFL-CIO President John Sweeney has been promising that the deal won't pass, and we're guessing his confidence has something to do with Big Labor's contributions to the Democratic Party in an election year.

But if House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's anti-Colombia motivations are easy to divine, Mr. Sweeney's are more puzzling. Union leaders like to say they're looking out for the well-being of the rank and file. But by quashing the Colombia FTA, Mr. Sweeney would weaken the competitiveness of American manufacturing and put some of America's best-paying union jobs at risk. These are jobs that exist today but could well be gone if Congress rejects this market opening in South America.

Exhibit A are 8,600 jobs at two Caterpillar Inc. factories in Illinois. Caterpillar exports more to Peru and Colombia than it does to Germany, Japan or the United Kingdom. So keeping and growing market share in both countries is important to union members in both plants. Not all are union jobs but both facilities are United Auto Worker shops.

Consider exports of the off-highway truck, made in Decatur. Customers in Colombia now pay a 15% tariff – equal to $200,000 – on the import of these vehicles. If the FTA goes through, that import tariff goes to zero immediately. Conversely, if the deal dies and Colombia, which is trying to expand its world trade, strikes an agreement with another country where similar vehicles are made, U.S. exports will immediately be at a 15% price disadvantage.

Colombia also has a large mining industry, and there are more Cat D-11 bulldozers in Colombian coal mines today than in any other country in the world. Those bulldozers are made in East Peoria. Colombian customers pay a 5% duty to import Cat bulldozers, which compete against Komatsu bulldozers made in Japan. Union members might ask Mr. Sweeney why he wants to spurn an offer that would give U.S. products a 5% price edge against Japanese competition.

Caterpillar – which has a total U.S. work force of 50,545 – faces an even more imminent threat in the case of its motor graders, a piece of heavy equipment used to level the playing field, literally. A company called Champion also makes motor graders in Canada, and Colombia is also negotiating an FTA with Canada. If Canada seals a deal with Colombia while the U.S. walks away from its Colombia pact, graders made in the U.S. will cost more than those made in Canada. Once again, Mr. Sweeney's agenda makes the U.S. work force less competitive.

The AFL-CIO's rejectionism makes even less sense when you consider that 92% of Colombian goods coming to the U.S. now enter the American market duty-free under the Andean Trade Preferences Act, or ATPA. In June 2007, 365 members of Congress voted to renew the ATPA and thereby maintain open U.S. markets for Colombian products. The FTA is a chance to open Colombian markets to U.S. goods and services. Killing it is like saying that we want U.S. products going to Colombia to be heavily taxed. Even for a trade protectionist like Mr. Sweeney, that makes no sense. For American workers, it's crazy.

Colombia and Cat - WSJ.com

__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

You know what really pisses me off. On all the issues that led me to vote for democrats in 2006 they have failed to accomplish a thing but on the one issue I disagree with them on they are completely successful. Sort of like how republicans are bad about actually cutting spending but good at everything else which is what I dislike about them. It seems like either party accomplishes what I view as it's negatives and does nothing about what I see as their positives.

__________________
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Perhaps a magic potion ?

Or we could take to killing labor leaders and implement a slavery driven manufacturing sector so as to keep in close competition with the third world ?

All welfare recipitents must now become state owned slaves, as must those who are unable to immediately pay off their students loans. As this debt must be recalled immediately.

In a world where national borders are increasingly meaningless for corporations, a deal which encourages the exploitation and abuse of workers anywhere is a bad deal for workers in the US.

__________________
A nation of slaves is always prepared to applaud the clemency of their master who, in the abuse of absolute power, does not proceed to the utmost extremes of injustice and oppression.
Edward Gibbon

the exploitation is in and of itself grossly exploited.....this is all politics…if we cannot award an 80% turn around in conditions, etc. I don’t know what to say.

And, If this is the yardstick we are going to use, then I'll start googling worldwide labor practices. In addtion I can tell my onw tales, and parse how we buy a Chinese made toy, or build factories in china, using labor from what amounts to a labor camp. I have been there, I have seen what amounts to nothing more than shacks, housing 30 people, bunk style, cramped, who don’t get paid very well, with zero safety gear or safety prgms, limited living conditions, aid, etc. working every day as they were building venues for the Olympics.
I saw close to the same in the area where in my co. is building a factory. Chengdu and Shanghai are th wprst affenders I have seen.
( Chengdu is a pit).
You want to disuss India?Lets not even go there. Or Pakistan etc.?


This is stupid, and will rebound in a very bad way. As a dem/ rep. whomever you are this is one of the cases of where batting bush around, has transcended the real issue, as this is no longer about free trade and has just become a contest to wound the administration and please a voting block.

__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor