CDN, I don't know where the hell you post from but I live smack dab in the middle of a large agricultural area. In fact a friend of mine in a large city who came to visit announced that I live in the middle of 'fucking nowhere.' I am just across the river from rural Missouri, just south of rural Southern Illinois, just north of rural Tennessee, rural Georgia and rural Alabama.

My people lived and farmed here long before irrigation became the way to do it. So, yes, I have a fucking clue, thank you very much.

Have YOU forgotten the years when inflation was double digit and many people even in urban areas started a new version of the 'victory garden?' Are you aware that gardening is the number one hobby of the baby boomers?

Now, I doubt that people who live in inner cities are much interested in the things you mention. And of course they will mirraud and spoil what they can. The rest of us just need to keep our powder dry!

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Agreed, mate. There are many who are negative in their outlook and contemptuous of those who would strive to make things better for us all. but those naysayers are not in control, and think THAT'S what irks them most. I don't think that you should allow them to put a damper on your own good fortune in seizing the opportunity to expand your business.

Congratulations, then, on those brighter personal prospects. I know that you will work hard to bring your dreams to fruition.

But the thing which saddens me is that we shall miss your generous attitude and cogent comments for the next few weeks. But, by all means, take care of your ship first, as any good captain must, then sail back to us when the weather clears.

I am quite familiar with your argument, with your hope, as I have used it myself (particularly with foreign policy). What do we know that they do not? How to balance a checkbook for starters.


Frankly, IMHO, what we're seeing is the result of decades of what I call "put it off" -ism. Politicians of both parties have been sweeping our massive problems under the carpet, while spending serious money on pet projects to keep their respective constituents happily in the dark.

Prior to this crash, any politician who dared to mention the dead body under the rug, such as Bush with Social Security, was called a madman and mocked. What scares the piss out of me is that our politicians should've seen this coming, miles away. Nobody had the courage to address it. Now, the problem is unaddressable. I mean, this is Banana-Republic-Style corruption! This is why Washington's approval ratings are in the single-digits...


I don't mean to depress you, but our reality is depressing, and I don't like it. I do agree with you, however, the best course of action is to let things naturally fall apart, and then re-build as we always do. America came back stronger than ever after the Great Depression, and we shall do so once again. Best of luck with your business! We need everyone who can stay in business w/o government money to do so!

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"The most important single central fact about a free market is that no exchange takes place unless both parties benefit."
- Milton Friedman

"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it."
- George Orwell

To Whom It May Concern,

I live in Upper East Tennessee right next to the Virginia, Tennessee and Carolina border.

While there are certain numbers of people in this country who can make those kinds of adjustments there are far more who are not. People who haven't had to be really hungry -- ever.

There are people who grow gardens and that is for sure but most of them grow flowers, rely on expensive fertilizers and a steady water supply. Here is a little tidbit about Missouri Western drought shrinking Big Muddy and Illinois Most of northern Illinois is in a “severe” drought and Georgia Drought tightens its grip on north Georgia for example. The conditions in America are a lot more troublesome than a lot of people notice. In the situation where the infrastructure becomes incapable of shipping in water what do you think will happen to people's "victory garden?"

There was a lot happening in the country before the current economic crisis hit. I'm not saying that you don't but most people haven't realized the drought conditions in the United States which are allieviated by our infrastructure. An infrastructure that is failing. As I mentioned before:

If the economy hits harder and states don't have money to repair the system which provides the water and the areas where people live are in a drought then being able to grow a garden now won't matter a bit.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

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I think the tariff thing was one action credited for making the 1929 thing worse.

And the ban on foreign people thing is in effect now. You wouldn't think so.

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Homo Homini Lupus? Its OK, I don't bite...hard.

false papers are easily obtained and tariffs are a terrible idea.

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Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Great moments in Non-partisanship: "I won" B.H.Obama

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

Well thank you for telling me what the weather is where I live. You remind me of the Greek who thought he had to tell me what day it was in America.

For your information, farming in this area does not depend on irrigation. It is rare if ever you see an irrigation set up in western KY. In West TN you see a lot of irrigation ditches, but very few large pieces of irrigation equipment. Across the river in Missouri they do a fair amount of irrigation. But where I is an area where there are many lakes and rivers. Even in drought years, crops her do pretty well.

The farmers here are not a bunch of hillbilly bumpkins. Most have been to college and they use scientific principles to raise their crops. They keep their farms in a good state of conservation. All one has to do is but to drive through the countryside and see all the test plots. The farmers here are in very close contact with the university extension service and those people are scientists who know damn sight more about it than YOU do. You should do more than watch Green Acres. Your posts reflect that is your foundation and it is just plain silly.

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AMEN!!!

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

LOL. Yeah, I kinda thought about starting another thread on that civil unrest issue. From that it doesn't appear there has been unrest anywhere near where I am.

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You know what. Ever time I think this fucking forum is a place to have a conversation I run into some asshole like you who takes to insulting people. I was talking about the current situation evolving in this country. Instead of decent rebutals I get some shitty comment about how I need to stop watching Green Acres. Give me a fucking break.

I've had it with this fucking forum.......

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Well, CDN, maybe you should visit a location before you start telling the locals what their area is like.

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Yeah, Canada's been doin' lots of bailouts too. Not as much as you guys, mind you (man the US is in bad shape!), but still.

And everybody's convinced that if the auto sector falls, it'll be the end of the world as we know it. Fer cryin' out loud, let 'em fall altready, and enough of the corporate socialism.

As far as I'm concerned, the most we should help is to offer to pay for any staff training, and that I believe is legitimate on the following grounds:

A company could be hesitant about retraining a worker out of fear that another company could poach him (though granted this is not likely to be a major issue in a recession, but still legitimate under normal conditions). Yet if the company doesn't train him, then the country ends up with low-skilled labour. So how to we get companies to give their workers the training they need to develop without fearing poeaching by other companies? Clearly the free market can't deal with that one. Sure the company could make the worker sign a contract prohibiting him from going to the competition for a set number of years after training, but what if life circumstances require him to leave his job and the competition is the only place hiring? Then should we expect him to go on forced welfare even though he could easily find work with the previous employer's competition?

As far as I'm concerned, this is a major flaw in the free market system that government intervention could rectify quite simply. If government re-imburses all training costs of a company, then the company might not mind as much if a worker leaves to go to the competition because in essence society paid for the training, not any one company. So this would put all the companies on an equal footing, with no company able to unscrupulously benefit from other companies' training generous worker training by poaching the workers of another company.

And in a recession, if the govenrment offers to re-imburse the training costs of any company, it ensures that the govenrment woud be helping growing companies, not failing companies (after all, failing companies are busy laying workers off, not upgrading their skills). This subsidy would also put all companies on an equal footing since unlike bail outs, it would apply to all companies across the board. Even the local mom and pop shop could get training costs re-imbursed. This would also encourage them to hire more workers since worker qualifications and training costs for under-qualified workers would no longer be a barrier to the growing company.

In addition to this, government re-imbursements of training costs would be money put into th economy, but more wisely and strategically than random bailouts. It would also ensure that worker qualificaitons increase thus making the US more attractive to foreign investors owing to a more qualified labour pool.

Beyond that, though, i would say let the companies fall.

When a government gives 'bail out' money to a lot of entities, how will the money be recouped?

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Taxes, of course. Yes, that dreaded word. I prefer letting the free market solve its problems usually, but as far as companies poeaching from others is concenrned, it would be in the national interest to ensure that companies feel comfortable to upgrade workers' skills without fear of poaching from other companies. Certainly it wouldn't be fair if one company is always upgrading its workers skills while another company poaches the workers with a small bonus. Obviously one company would be benefitting from the generosity of the other until finally the other could only go bankrupt under the unfair competition.

Alternatively, no company invests sufficienty for worker retraining, but then labour skills fall behind, and those companies in need of qualified workers start looking abroad. Not good for the US economy overall. While I like free markets, if we slavishly adhere to them even when it's clear that they're flawed, while more pragmatic countries are willing to experiment, then clearly companies will start moving there because of the security provided by ensuring that all companies invest in worker training, even if it is through personal income taxes taxes, with all of society contributing and benefitting from it, with no company fearing retraining its workers to ensure the economy works well.

Remember too that if the government refuses to bail out companies but merely offers to re-imburse training costs, then the companies still have to prove themselves stable. After all, a company that`s failing is busy laying people off, not upgrading their skills. So in fact if would be the companies of the future that would be receiving this money for upgrading their workers`skills or hiring new workers. You wouldn`t just be bailing out failing companies.