HR 25 - National Sales Tax reintroduced in congress - Page 5 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

daddio · #61 (**permalink**) 01-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by phungus

So when you make a purchase at the store, they check your income and adjust your tax at the register? I call BS. As I said all sale's taxes do is shift the tax burden to the lower income earners. State sales taxes are a terrible idea in their own right, and I'm glad I live where we don't have one, but making it the main source of State income would lessen demand (basic micro economics people), and punish the poor and middle classes, while giving the rich even better ways to evade paying taxes. This is quite possibly the worst economic idea I have ever seen.

It seems to me that there is a fundamental disconect in the purpose of the economy. Conservatives seem to think an economy exists in order to facilitate social stratification, distribution of goods and services is a byproduct. Likewise liberals view the purpose of an economy as a means to distribute goods and services, social stratification being a byproduct. If your goal is to increase the ease of social stratification, strengthening the class structure, then shifting the burden of State costs to the lower income earners makes sense. But for your average Joe, this will do nothing but cause harm.

A pre-bate will be issued in anticipation of actual purchases. Adjustments will be made up if your spending spikes.

A disconnect ? I'll say. The US was never seen as a communist state.

jviehe · #62 (**permalink**) 01-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by phungus

So when you make a purchase at the store, they check your income and adjust your tax at the register? I call BS. As I said all sale's taxes do is shift the tax burden to the lower income earners. State sales taxes are a terrible idea in their own right, and I'm glad I live where we don't have one, but making it the main source of State income would lessen demand (basic micro economics people), and punish the poor and middle classes, while giving the rich even better ways to evade paying taxes. This is quite possibly the worst economic idea I have ever seen.

It seems to me that there is a fundamental disconect in the purpose of the economy. Conservatives seem to think an economy exists in order to facilitate social stratification, distribution of goods and services is a byproduct. Likewise liberals view the purpose of an economy as a means to distribute goods and services, social stratification being a byproduct. If your goal is to increase the ease of social stratification, strengthening the class structure, then shifting the burden of State costs to the lower income earners makes sense. But for your average Joe, this will do nothing but cause harm.

No, under the Fair Tax, every citizen recieves a check from the govt to prebate any tax they will pay on the spending up to the poverty level. Rich or poor. Can you explain to me, while actually providing facts, not assumptions, how the rich will avoid paying taxes under this system?

jviehe · #63 (**permalink**) 01-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHighForester

On the other hand, states like Tennessee, which rely heavily on their own sales tax, will LOVE this. If a hundred dollars worth of groceries will now "cost" $130.00, the the state will collect tax on the additional thirty bucks. At 9.75%, that ain't hay!

Everybody, of course, will be THRILLED at the idea that they have to pay tax on the tax.

Except one hundred dollars of groceries will now cost...one hundred dollars. No more embeded taxes. I really dont think you have bothered to understand. I can correct your mistakes all day long, but this would be more constructive if you started with some facts.

TheHighForester · #64 (**permalink**) 01-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

Except one hundred dollars of groceries will now cost...one hundred dollars. No more embeded taxes. I really dont think you have bothered to understand. I can correct your mistakes all day long, but this would be more constructive if you started with some facts.

There's no mistake. This is legislated inflation.

Your appeal to "imbedded" taxes is based on a willful illusion.

jviehe · #65 (**permalink**) 01-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHighForester

There's no mistake. This is legislated inflation.

Your appeal to "imbedded" taxes is based on a willful illusion.

Based on 20 years of research by economists actually. Feel free to look it up. THey didnt just write this up over drinks one night.

EricOKC · #66 (**permalink**) 01-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHighForester

Great!

A 23% national sales tax is the surest way to destroy the US economy, reduce the people to squabbling savages, and render the nation incapable of defending itself.

Will they ship each merchant a copy of the Koran along with his new tax tables?

Ah - so you dont actually understand either the plan, or how much you're currently paying in taxes.

Got it.

Do yourself a favor and stop commenting until you have a clue.

EricOKC · #67 (**permalink**) 01-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHighForester

You're making some very large and unsupportable claims about what "will" happen.

Um - no. He is making statements about what is specifically in the bill and would be passed into law. In other words, unlike you, he is working with facts, not fear; intelligence not ignorance.

EricOKC · #68 (**permalink**) 01-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by phungus

The only thing I can percieve that this is intended to do is make the very wealthy virtually untaxable.

And how do you figure that? The only way they would be completely untaxed is to buy everything used.

TheHighForester · #69 (**permalink**) 01-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricOKC

Ah - so you dont actually understand either the plan, or how much you're currently paying in taxes.

Got it.

Do yourself a favor and stop commenting until you have a clue.

I paid over $600,000 in federal income tax last year. I also paid Social Security, MedicAid, property taxes in several jurisdictions, state income taxes in New York, California, and Pennsylvania, state sales taxes on everything I purchased, and various taxes, licenses, and fees for specific property and/or activities throughout the year. I paid for the right to comment.

In fact, the UnFair Tax proposal would save me a lot of money. But it would wreck the economy and reduce millions to poverty, and I happen to think that those consequences would be bad.

EricOKC · #70 (**permalink**) 01-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHighForester

That's EXACTLY what it is intended to do.

Care to explain how?

Again, do you have a clue?

EricOKC · #71 (**permalink**) 01-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHighForester

On the other hand, states like Tennessee, which rely heavily on their own sales tax, will LOVE this. If a hundred dollars worth of groceries will now "cost" $130.00, the the state will collect tax on the additional thirty bucks. At 9.75%, that ain't hay!

Everybody, of course, will be THRILLED at the idea that they have to pay tax on the tax.

Um - no. They would charge the tax on the product itself, not upon the taxed amount.....

Again, if you had a clue, you'd know this.

EricOKC · #72 (**permalink**) 01-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHighForester

There's no mistake. This is legislated inflation.

Care to explain how? Please use actual facts and the actual plan, not your fantasies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHighForester

Your appeal to "imbedded" taxes is based on a willful illusion.

Hardly. It is based upon facts (there's that word again), which is, I am certain, why you do not understand it.

jviehe · #73 (**permalink**) 01-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHighForester

I paid over $600,000 in federal income tax last year. I also paid Social Security, MedicAid, property taxes in several jurisdictions, state income taxes in New York, California, and Pennsylvania, state sales taxes on everything I purchased, and various taxes, licenses, and fees for specific property and/or activities throughout the year. I paid for the right to comment.

In fact, the UnFair Tax proposal would save me a lot of money. But it would wreck the economy and reduce millions to poverty, and I happen to think that those consequences would be bad.

Im still waiting to hear some facts to back this up.

EricOKC · #74 (**permalink**) 01-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHighForester

I paid over $600,000 in federal income tax last year. I also paid Social Security, MedicAid, property taxes in several jurisdictions, state income taxes in New York, California, and Pennsylvania, state sales taxes on everything I purchased, and various taxes, licenses, and fees for specific property and/or activities throughout the year. I paid for the right to comment.

In fact, the UnFair Tax proposal would save me a lot of money. But it would wreck the economy and reduce millions to poverty, and I happen to think that those consequences would be bad.

First off, I seriously doubt you paid that much in federal income tax, because I refuse to believe you could make THAT much money and be THAT stupid. Besides, according to your profile. you're a history professor, and I dont know of ANYONE in academia making the kind of money necessary to pay over a half million in taxes.

Second of all, if you actually understood the plan, you would find out that most of what you're saying is pure bullshit. You can comment all you want, but please stop making yourself look like an idiot in the process. It is painful.

Third, how would it wreck the economy? In reality, the reduction in the final cost of product combined with a sharp increase in real income would likely improve the economy. In addition, the elimination of taxes on used items would cause a dramatic spike in such things as used car and home sales.

EricOKC · #75 (**permalink**) 01-09-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

Im still waiting to hear some facts to back this up.

I doubt you'll hear them. After all, he paid over 600K in taxes last year just to federal, on a history professor's salary no less. He obviously knows better than you or I and he should not be questioned.

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