Thread: The federal Reserve is the key.

Relatively speaking, that is...

Originally Posted by danielpalos

Do you want to abolish the Fed instead of ending the drug war?

If you abolish the FED, you get rid of the drug war! A currency that is not legal tender or accepted by the government and the people as legal tender in exchange for real commodities i.e. gold, silver, diamonds, hard mineral is not worth anything and therefore eliminates the ability of the cartel both bankers and drug dealers to effectively make, transport and sell their merchandise.

Originally Posted by danielpalos

Mostly wikipedia articles and info pages from the Fed and its regional banks.

The Fed was lawfully enacted by an act of Congress (of The People).

That is categorically wrong on every front. Congress wasn't even in session when the Federal Reserve Act was passed into law. This therefore makes it an illegal act. Not only this but the Supreme Court twice declared it to be unconstitutional which only solidifies its illegality.

Originally Posted by Norrin Radd

Well, there is no doubt that the people must share in the blame for what our elected officials do. The problem is, which I have been trying to pound into your head, is that our elected officials do not run this country. They are puppets answering to those behind the scenes. Now, you are free to dismiss this if you want, but if you would bother to do the reading I have suggested at this forum over the last few years, you would realize that it is true. We truly have a shadow government, it is real and it is destroying this nation from within.

This is one of the reasons we need to repeal the Federal Reserve Act, but our work would not end there. We need to break up the power of the foundations, as well as some of the larger corporations which have become oligopolies. We also need to forbid any CFR/TC/Bilderberg member from holding any position of power. We also need to vote all Republicans and Democrats out of office, except for Ron Paul.

If we do not take these steps, this country will continue down the wrong path.

We need to do more than just what you stated. I would propose withdrawing from the IMF and WTO!

Originally Posted by RRAHH

If you abolish the FED, you get rid of the drug war! A currency that is not legal tender or accepted by the government and the people as legal tender in exchange for real commodities i.e. gold, silver, diamonds, hard mineral is not worth anything and therefore eliminates the ability of the cartel both bankers and drug dealers to effectively make, transport and sell their merchandise.



That is categorically wrong on every front. Congress wasn't even in session when the Federal Reserve Act was passed into law. This therefore makes it an illegal act. Not only this but the Supreme Court twice declared it to be unconstitutional which only solidifies its illegality.


We need to do more than just what you stated. I would propose withdrawing from the IMF and WTO!

I agree. All treaties need to re-examined, including all trade agreements, the law of the sea treaty, mab, agenda 21, etc, etc.

I would also like to withdraw from the UN, as well as NATO, but I would need access to all pertinent information before I would withdraw from all international arrangements. So-called free trade has truly crippled the US economically. Anyone who supported NAFTA is a moron.

Originally Posted by Retro Fit

Not a convincing argument.
But, the Anarchy will continue . We have built three bases in Iraq and an Embassy larger then the Vatican. Long after we bring the majority of the troops home, we will still be occupying Iraqi soil. Just a few more foreign military bases to add to the 700 or so other U.S. bases on foreign soil. All paid for with fiat currency made possible by the Federal reserve.
Daniel, the fed is the key. You must know this. If you really give a fuck about the injustices laid out by the WOD, then you must remove their funding. In order to remove their funding you are going to have to give up your socialistic dreams of money by decree flowing like honey in a never ending upward spiral..It just does not work that way....Sorry.

This is a particular piece of propaganda and rhetoric that has already been addressed. The Fed does not enact fiscal policy, only our Congress can do that. Thus, you are blaming a mostly autonomous organ of the executive branch that actually generates revenue that can defray public sector costs, for something that is rightfully the province of our elected representatives to government: fiscal policy.

Why do we have a war on terror? Did we have a war on terror after WWII? The war is over. Only occupation of another "sovereign" state remains as a cost of foreign entanglements.

We could be lowering our tax burden instead of resorting to the fallacy of false cause for the common Offense and general Warfare; as a form of fiscal responsibility.

Originally Posted by RRAHH

If you abolish the FED, you get rid of the drug war! A currency that is not legal tender or accepted by the government and the people as legal tender in exchange for real commodities i.e. gold, silver, diamonds, hard mineral is not worth anything and therefore eliminates the ability of the cartel both bankers and drug dealers to effectively make, transport and sell their merchandise.

That is categorically wrong on every front. Congress wasn't even in session when the Federal Reserve Act was passed into law. This therefore makes it an illegal act. Not only this but the Supreme Court twice declared it to be unconstitutional which only solidifies its illegality.

We need to do more than just what you stated. I would propose withdrawing from the IMF and WTO!

Which act of Congress enumerates the end of the crime, drug, poverty, and terror wars by eliminating the Fed? You could be resorting to the fallacy of false cause since the Fed does not have any authority to enact fiscal policy only monetary policy and central banking.

How was an act that has the full faith and credit of the United States passed and signed into law by the chief magistrate of the Union, without a quorum?

Originally Posted by Norrin Radd

I agree. All treaties need to re-examined, including all trade agreements, the law of the sea treaty, mab, agenda 21, etc, etc.

I would also like to withdraw from the UN, as well as NATO, but I would need access to all pertinent information before I would withdraw from all international arrangements. So-called free trade has truly crippled the US economically. Anyone who supported NAFTA is a moron.

Why would free trade be more of a problem than fiscal policy which only wastes tax payer monies on crime, drug, poverty, and terror wars; instead of providing for the common defense and general welfare?

A warfare-state economic model has already been proven to be more detrimental to individual liberty than the welfare-state economic model enumerated in our social contract and Constitution.

Originally Posted by Retro Fit

Difference is Kennedy was a somebody. I, alas, am a nobody.

I don't mean you, just anybody in a position to do anything about it.

Originally Posted by ViPER

I don't mean you, just anybody in a position to do anything about it.

You mean people like John Heinz, John Tower and Larry P. McDonald?

Originally Posted by danielpalos

Why would free trade be more of a problem than fiscal policy which only wastes tax payer monies on crime, drug, poverty, and terror wars; instead of providing for the common defense and general welfare?

A warfare-state economic model has already been proven to be more detrimental to individual liberty than the welfare-state economic model enumerated in our social contract and Constitution.

Why do you keep HAARPING on issues that we are not discussing?

There have been many threads on IRaq/Afghanistan and many threads on the drug war. We have discussed those topics and I agree that all 3 are a tremendous waste of money.

HOWEVER, that is not what this thread is about.

Do you think it is fine for a private organization to be in charge of dispersing YOUR TAX DOLLARS? With no OVERSIGHT?

Federal Reserve Give $2 Trillion Out in Secret


It has been found that the Federal Reserve gave out $1.9 trillion in credit recently, but refuses to release the names of the borrowers. The Federal Reserve is contending that that it is not subject to Freedom of Information Act requests.

New Jersey Representative Scott Garrett (R) said, “At some point, the demand for transparency is paramount to any demand that they have for secrecy.” Bloomberg filed the suit on Nov. 7th under the US FOI Act against the Federal Reserve.

Bloomberg’s request states the need for obtaining the lists, “are central to understanding and assessing the government’s response to the most cataclysmic financial crisis in America since the Great Depression.”

Federal Reserve Give $2 Trillion Out in Secret

Federal Reserve spokeswoman Michelle Smith declined to comment on the loans or the Bloomberg lawsuit. Treasury spokeswoman Michele Davis didn't respond to a phone call and an e-mail seeking comment.

President-elect Barack Obama's economic adviser, Jason Furman, also didn't respond to an e-mail and a phone call seeking comment from Obama. In a Sept. 22 campaign speech, Obama promised to ``make our government open and transparent so that anyone can ensure that our business is the people's business.''

Fed Defies Transparency Aim in Refusal to Disclose (Update2) - Bloomberg.com

With Attention on Bailout Debate, Treasury Made Change to Tax Policy

In the midst of the late-September bailout, the Treasury Department issued a five-sentence notice creating a sweeping change to two decades of tax policy, giving banks a windfall of as much as $140 billion. Until the financial meltdown, it was impossible to revamp this section of the tax code because this would look like a corporate giveaway, according to lobbyists.

Fed Keeps $2 trillion secret, Goldman Sachs shorted its sales

What does it take to get through to you?

?

I'll admit that I'm amazed that the printing of US currency is delegated to a private company!

Inasmuch as I lean towards a private market overall, it just seems to make sense that none other than the government itself ought to be allowed to print government money.

Daniel, against my better judgment I'm going to address your questions one last time. If you read what I'm going to say with an open mind and use logic, you will see that Norrin, Rrahh, I, and others (that have made numerous attempts at trying to get through that hard head of yours), are right about the fed.

Bear with me as I'm going to attempt to put it in such a way that you can understand better....


Hypothetically speaking, lets say that you were the richest, most powerful man in the World with a nest egg of a million ounces of pure gold stashed away in your safe. At today's rates those ounces of gold are worth one billion or so dollars.
One day you decide that you want to buy up all the property within a 300 mile radius of your Mansion . You have enough gold to purchase the property, but you'd rather not have to spend your gold because you see it as the symbol of your power. Power, that, after years and years, was finally going to your head. A group of your richest friends that you use as advisers are called in to solve the problem.
You all decide that you will need to find some way to get all that property AND keep all your gold as well.

Throughout the years (before you became so full of yourself) you had gained a reputation for being a reliable person.
People around the World thought of you as someone they could turn to if they needed help.
The people of the World trusted you, and those that didn't trust you were in awe of your wealth and power, so they stayed out of your way.
The land you wanted to buy was owned by 500 different people. You decided to use your influence to sway these 500 people to accept a personal check in exchange for their portion of the land you wanted. That way you could at least hold onto the gold until they come to cash the checks. Since you were regarded as a man who's word was his bond, all 500 land owners accept your note as payment. You successfully acquired the land you wanted AND got to keep all your gold (even if only temporarily) ......

so far, so good.

So, now those 500 (former) land owners all had your promissory notes and they went off to buy some other property or whatever....Since your checks were considered to be as good as gold, everyone was happy to accept them in lieu of payment, and your checks begin to circulate as if they were the actual gold they represented.
People begin to prefer trading with your checks because gold is so bulky and heavy and bothersome.

After a while, you begin to notice that nobody was coming in to cash out your checks for gold. they just kept circulating around and around.
"That's odd", you thought to yourself.
Suddenly you got an idea...
you got an evil idea.
Why not buy up more stuff with checks? Since nobody ever comes to exchange them for gold, who's to know? The only way there would be a problem is if everyone tried to cash their checks for gold, but that seemed highly unlikely.
So, you start buying by check big time...Soon, you'd amassed an Army, bigger then has ever been seen. There's billions of your checks in circulation, So many in fact that your checks become the preferred medium of exchange around the World.

The decades pass. You are now the most powerful person that has ever walked the planet. People come to you when they are in need....if they need schools, you write a check...If they need roads, you write a check....If another country acts up or has a resource you want, you write a check. What difference does it make to you? As long as people keep accepting your checks, the gravy train will flow.

You are now a demi God...your cup never runneth under...People are attracted to your power like flies to feces, so, soon you have thousands of tag-a-longs..Minions to do your bidding for you. No request is to large or to small, after all, you want your people to love you...There are so many of them...God forbid what might happen if you were to fall out of their favor.
God forbid what would happen if they fell out of yours.

Back when you started to write checks for everything, you noticed a strange consequence of your check writing....You noticed that the more checks you wrote, the higher prices ( for goods, services, property)would rise.
Every year, without exception, the more checks you'd write, the higher prices would rise.
If you did not write any new checks, the prices would stop rising and level out(but they would not fall). As soon as you'd start writing checks again, prices would start to rise again. The faster you wrote checks, the faster prices would rise.
You thought to yourself, "That's odd"..
Yet still you kept writing more and more checks.

Time went by....

So much time went by, the newer generations, who had never known gold as money, thought your checks were "the money", so you pass a law that deems your checks as the "legal tender".
Yes, you are on top of the World...

Yet, unbeknownst to you, there's a problem brewing.
That odd phenomenon that made prices go up when you wrote more checks had not gone away. Prices had risen 10...60....600%....1500% more then before your checks were money.
You ask your adviser's "what can be done about this"? Your advisers hire some bankers to scurry around, frantically, tweaking this, manipulating that,...trying to do anything to lower prices.
To their credit, your advisers do keep prices down for a long, long time.
But they cannot stop the inflation.
They cannot stop spending money because it's to easy to spend money you get for free.

Unfortunately, there came a day when you just had to many checks in circulation.
Checks written by foreigners rose in value, while the value of your checks dropped.... until
one day you woke up to find that your checks were worthless....nobody would accept them.....

All those people who trusted you
and accepted your checks as money woke up to find themselves penny less.
There was panic in the streets.
Men, Woman, children.....broke...starving.....dying...
It was anarchy.
The only ones that survived, were the ones who foresaw the coming event and had transferred your checks into tangible items
such as gold, silver, livestock, grain....

"I'm ruined", you thought as you awoke that day.....
Then you remembered.....You still had all your original gold!


In the story above:
You = the government
your checks = U.S. dollars
your advisers = The federal reserve

I realize the little story above is not a exact rendition of how our monetary system works (or doesn't work). It's just a simplistic generalization so that you, Daniel, might get a basic idea of how it is. God knows I've tried every other way to get through your thick skull.

Originally Posted by danielpalos

Which act of Congress enumerates the end of the crime, drug, poverty, and terror wars by eliminating the Fed? You could be resorting to the fallacy of false cause since the Fed does not have any authority to enact fiscal policy only monetary policy and central banking.

How was an act that has the full faith and credit of the United States passed and signed into law by the chief magistrate of the Union, without a quorum?

You are missing the point in its entirety! When a private organization controls the flow of money long enough to where the people are oblivious, they end up controlling fiscal policy! (And Government!) Think about it! Money = Debt! It's as simple as that! Eliminating the FED in its entirety effectively eliminates the drug cartel and the need for a bloated military and government to combat said drug cartel! This also ties directly into the economy! So much of everything and our problems are so closely tied into FED that it's obvious for anyone that's done the research that the FED is the problem first and foremost. The second problem is our government and the third problem is the complacency of the general public!

Originally Posted by Norrin Radd

You mean people like John Heinz, John Tower and Larry P. McDonald?

All dead. they all wanted to do away with the FRB?