Here's my advice to Union members: When you start losing market share to the Chinese, use your political connections in DC to start Congressional Hearings on the safety of the Chinese product. After all, you guys spent millions getting the Dems elected, they owe you.

LOL

Chinese workers don't make anywhere near $10 an hour, as you ought to know. There is no way to sell most of the goods made in Chinese factories to the workers producing them. They were intended from the beginning for the U.S. market and that of other advanced economies. So it's really a question of selling a $100 tire to people making $10/hr instead of $20, while paying the people who actually MAKE the tire 15 cents an hour. And that cut in wages ripples all through the U.S. economy, while prices for all goods in the aggregate have gone UP, not down. There are some goods made abroad that are indeed cheaper now, but food is not, nor housing, nor medical care, nor entertainment, nor cars, nor gas, nor most of the things we buy.

If can't be otherwise, since the entire purpose of this whole arrangement is to put a larger share of the wealth produced in the pockets of a few very rich people at the top. That cannot be done without lowering the standards of living for everyone else, and ultimately undermining the economy, which depends on keeping that standard of living high.

Advanced products tend to be. So what?But if the people making the tires work in China and won't buy it anyway, then the tire manufacturer won't have any control over what American workers make, anyway. Whether it's a "question" or not, it's not one they will get to answer, anyway.Well that's too bad. The bottom line is they have the option of producing more cheaply or more expensively. If they're really worried about selling their tires due to low wages, they'll just lower the prices. What difference does it make if they take the loss and provide to the workers during production (through wages) or later when selling (through price reduction)? That's too bad for the workers. They should try to acquire skills greater than those of Chinese children making $0.15/hr, as you say.

China artifically keeps the value of their currency low so they can continue to keep their cost of labor low so their goods are always exportable.

Adding a tariff to their goods is one external way to correct for their 'cheating' of the system. Of course, there are problems created by tariffs as well.

Irrelevant. This operation isn't a one-man show. What one person has control of is of no importance at all. What all of them together are in control of is.

Again, irrelevant. Again, it's not a one-man show. Again, it doesn't matter what any one company does. It matters what all of them in the aggregate do. It also doesn't matter what provides a competitive advantage to any one company; obviously if it does, they'll do it. But what's good for one company in competition with others is not necessarily good for the economy as a whole.

They HAVE skills greater than those of the Chinese, of course. Just not enough more to be worth that big a difference. And again, it's irrelevant whether it's good for the workers or not. Again, it's not a one-man show. Again, it's what's good or bad for the economy as a whole that I'm talking about, which is not necessarily what is good or bad for any one part of it.

what difference does this make ?

commodity manufacture always goes to the cheapest producer. been thie way forever..

__________________
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Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

It means the total market for tires is smaller by that much, since Chinese workers can't afford to buy them.

That's the reason we need artificial barriers like tariffs in a case like this, when having it go to the cheapest producer will sabotage the entire economy.

Replace "tires" with anything else if you wish.And once again, I wasn't making a statement about a specific company. You can apply it to other companies if you wish.It's still their fault that they can't compete. They demand too much money for their skills, obviously.

Once again, the problem you presented is that Americans won't have enough money to buy the products produced. If this happens, and it is possible to be less efficient and still profitable, outsourcing companies have one of two options:

1. Give Americans more buying power at the cost of raising prices. $20/hr to buy $200 tire.
2. Keep functioning in the foreign nation and lower prices. $10/hr to buy $100 tire.

Either way, they can make people buy their shit if it is technologically possible to make a profit.

I think what you're now saying is they should play nice not for their sake, but because Americans are lazy and stupid and can't compete.

Good point.

True. Outsourcing has driven a stake into our hearts excluding, as you have pointed out...a very few rich folks at the top of the food chain. This is one issue that needs to be addressed this time around the beltway. Restore oursourced jobs back into the USA. Begin to retool, steel, electronics, textiles...you name it.

A gradual restoration of those industries sent overseas must be returned to America. Give the businesses an incentive to bring the work back home. Tax incentives, real estate property tax breaks for a determined length of time. Provide extensive civic support. Make damn sure everyone who works is a citizen of the republic. A white face and speaking the King's English is not proof.

"We don't have the trained people."

So India has more "trained" people than America? BS. They're cheaper in India and so the profit is greater for the company.

"We'll have to pay more for goods and services if all the employees are American."

Most likely true if the government does'nt penalize foreign goods and services by taxes and tariffs. But even if so...they are OUR goods and services made and performed by OUR people. I am not concerned about the people in India or Indonesia and neither were the businesses who exported American jobs overseas...they were concerned by the bottom line.

AMERICA FIRST COMMITTEE

Just like in the other thread! Great post man! Just one thing though! If we eliminate the income tax scheme for all businesses and citizens, shouldn't that be enough to keep the businesses here for good while keeping the American people payed and happy? Screw reducing the real estate tax, property tax and what not. Isn't the income tax where the most money is funneled out?

We won't eliminate it but work out an incentive that makes it attractive to reenter the American work place with their goods and services. As for the real estate angle, that has been done by more than one city. Take the Toyota plant [assembly] in the southwest [San Antonio to be exact]...they were given incentives to build and to produce for a determined period of time in exchange for the jobs they brought to the city and surrounding area. It is'nt forever and ever but a break to get them rolling, producing and selling their product.

In the case of customer service businesses...it gives them time to train a staff and get their game plan rolling...if ever.

Let's remember, a business or industry has an investment in the area and in the product. Nothing wrong in sweetening the deal a bit if it pays off in the long run. The criticism on American business has long been not thinking beyond the next quarter. Toyota example, made a huge investment in the area and for that risk, they deserve a tax break.

On land, however it was obtained, outright purchased or a 100 year land lease...I don't know, but whatever it took to bring a company which would put 2,000 people to work is worth working something out. I would imagine many cities, counties and even states would be willing to work out a deal for a large steel company to get rolling again in America. Same goes for textiles. We need to retool, bring back industry and customer services to the American people.

AMERICA FIRST COMMITTEE

China is now the largest market in the world for automobiles, somebody over there is making more than 15 cents per hour.

It will still be a single product only, and the aggregate is what's important.

Youi will still be considering only one company at a time, and it's the aggregate that's important.

You are still considering things from the narrow aspect of one person's desires and/or what they deserve, and it's the effect on the economy as a whole that's important.