Peter Schiff: "it's all fake, we are repeating the same mistakes" - Page 4 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

Stapo · #46 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

*greets EagleTed and checks his notes*

Paul Krugman -

B.A. from Yale
Ph.D from MIT
Ford International Professor of Economics at MIT
John Bates Clark medal winner from the American Economic Association
Nobel Prize in Economics

aye, i consider this matey pretty well vetted.

yarrr!

- MeadHallPirate

Usualy EagleTed and me, are not often on the same side, but here I have to agree; being smart and educated doesn't mean much.

Hell we are talking about economics, a science soley based on making up models how the economic world might be working according the the said models, strengthend by as much data + math as possible no matter if they make sense.

You may like Krugman's model, I prefer Schieff's, so we just have to wait and see whose model will be more accurate.

MeadHallPirate · #47 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stapo

Usualy EagleTed and me, are not often on the same side, but here I have to agree; being smart and educated doesn't mean much.

Hell we are talking about economics, a science soley based on making up models how the economic world might be working according the the said models, strengthend by as much data + math as possible no matter if they make sense.

You may like Krugman's model, I prefer Schieff's, so we just have to wait and see whose model will be more accurate.

*nods to Stapo*

aye, fair enough matey.

*digs into his pockets for a scrap of paper and reads*

Quote:

The John Bates Clark Medal is awarded by the American Economic Association to "that American economist under the age of forty who is adjudged to have made a significant contribution to economic thought and knowledge".[1] According to the Chronicle of Higher Education, it "is widely regarded as one of the field’s most prestigious awards, perhaps second only to the Nobel in economic science."

John Bates Clark Medal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

i can understand sayin' that bein' smart and educated and winner of the John Bates Clark Medal and the Nobel prize in economics doesn't mean much when we're talkin' about economics...but only sorta, mate.

*salutes*

- MeadHallPirate

Stapo · #48 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

i can understand sayin' that bein' smart and educated and winner of the John Bates Clark Medal and the Nobel prize in economics doesn't mean much when we're talkin' about economics...but only sorta, mate.

*salutes*

- MeadHallPirate

Agreed, only sorta.

Sure uncle Jimmy redneck Jack's 3 letter pocket economic advices are not really enough, but that doesn't mean that a tripple PHD, summa con laude, noble price winner is automatically more right, than a well educated pro/amateur.

It's mainly about the philosophy behind one's ideas and whether one was able and willing to test them against opposing ones.

Schieff seems to have done so and that's why I can live with his ideas/speculations and so I'm also not impressed by e.g. a noble price winner having a different point of view.

MeadHallPirate · #49 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stapo

Agreed, only sorta.

Sure uncle Jimmy redneck Jack's 3 letter pocket economic advices are not really enough, but that doesn't mean that a tripple PHD, summa con laude, noble price winner is automatically more right, than a well educated pro/amateur.

It's mainly about the philosophy behind one's ideas and whether one was able and willing to test them against opposing ones.

Schieff seems to have done so and that's why I can live with his ideas/speculations and so I'm also not impressed by e.g. a noble price winner having a different point of view.

*agrees with Stapo*

yarr matey, aye!

mr. Schiff and mr. Krugman were not so far apart durin' the leadup to the collapse 'o the housin' bubble. both were skeptical 'o the real health 'o the US economy. a quick perusal 'o mr. Krugman's columns in the reviled New York Times would confirm that. here is mr. Schiff gettin' lampooned on fox news as he warned us of the perils ahead;
YouTube - Peter Schiff on Fox News WAKE UP!!!!

i think the difference we be seein' now is that mr. Schiff woulda been fine havin' the bankin' industry collapse and other US industries collapse. he'd have advocated lettin' the US economy "self correct", with state budgets eviscerated puttin' teachers, firemen, police, etc out of work.

'tis the whole, "let it all burn down we'll start over" approach.

i can't agree with him. i can't agree with anyone who'd chart such a course.
to the americans who do agree with that tack....be careful what ye wish fer.

*bows*

- MeadHallPirate

EagleTed · #50 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

*greets EagleTed and checks his notes*

Paul Krugman -

B.A. from Yale
Ph.D from MIT
Ford International Professor of Economics at MIT
John Bates Clark medal winner from the American Economic Association
Nobel Prize in Economics

aye, i consider this matey pretty well vetted.

yarrr!

- MeadHallPirate

I'll take my swill from Milton Friedman, if you please.

bg85 · #51 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

if he wasn't running for office i would put a lot more stock in what he says.

Stapo · #52 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

i think the difference we be seein' now is that mr. Schiff woulda been fine havin' the bankin' industry collapse and other US industries collapse. he'd have advocated lettin' the US economy "self correct", with state budgets eviscerated puttin' teachers, firemen, police, etc out of work.

'tis the whole, "let it all burn down we'll start over" approach.

i can't agree with him. i can't agree with anyone who'd chart such a course.
to the americans who do agree with that tack....be careful what ye wish fer.

- MeadHallPirate

Hey mate on my vassel you won't have to walk the plank for disagreeing

(Sorry for the poor imitation of your pirate style)

Schieff is extreme for sure, but who says that a moderated Schieff approach (let the motherfuckers burn financially for their sins/misinvestment, but give 'em some food) wouldn't be workable. Somehow I can't imagine that feeding the masses would have been more expansive than feeding the financial zombies of Wall Street/Detroit.

Now the little one is feeling the pain, will do so even more when Schieff is right and the true fuckheads were speared from another vital lesson again.

It seems the lecture was just posponed, but not cancelled and before you wonder / ask, this applies for all Non Americans as well.

During the past decades an unsubstainable world economy was established (main problem) and Dr Schieff's harsh treatment would cure it the hard way.

Not sure how Krugman's medice can be turned into the solution for the underneath imbalances and to me his ideas are rather just a placebos/pain killer for the current problems, without tackeling the problems behind it.

Imperator · #53 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disillusioned_1

Schiff has said the fall downward probably wont be as bad because of the stimulus. HOWEVER, he points out all that does is set us up for future failures since the powers behind the collapse won't learn their lesson and wont change their policies. He also believes that the climb back up will be a lot slower because of the stimulus, because inherently government meddling in private industry impedes capitalism rather than promoting capitalism.

So I'm not sure Schiff and Krugman are in significant disagreement except as to which scenario is worse. Schiff sees the government involvement, slow recovery, and more future collapses because of fundamental problems left unfixed as the greater evil. Krugman presumably sees the bigger harder collapse if the government DOESN'T intervene to be the greater evil.

yes but Krugmans answer is more stimulus is it not?

smurf · #54 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamwhatiseem

It is not about Obama, remember Bush started this great giveaway.
Problem is Chas...did he really have a choice? If he did not infuse borrowed $billions and $billions the economy would have collapsed - and we would have truly had "the greatest recession since 1930".
The real issue is what do we do? No one argues or can argue that the U.S. economy has been built on a foundation of quicksand for over 20 years..a mixture of massive consumer debt (on which 70% of the GDP is comprised) and massive government debt.
What do we do when the debt runs out? WHat do we have left?

What happens to any entity when it can no longer service its debt? The U.S. govt will default, but not in the sense that all other debtors default. The U.S. govt can print its own money, so it will never actually miss any of its payments. The problem is that the value of that money will be destroyed in the process. At some point in the future, it won't be a question of the government choosing to do this or that; it will run out of options, and then hyperinflation will occur.

smurf · #55 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunshine

I heard a clip this week that consumer debt is at an all time low. People are paying down their balances and paying cash for purchases. This cannot be a bad thing.

As others have questioned, do you have a source for that? I am sure that consumers that are able to are reducing debt. The problem is that many are unable to do so.

smurf · #56 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by bg85

if he wasn't running for office i would put a lot more stock in what he says.

Ignore what Peter Schiff says about the economy at your own peril. He was right about the economy long before he decided to run for the Senate.

Jefe · #57 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by bg85

if he wasn't running for office i would put a lot more stock in what he says.

Good point, thanks for reminding me that politicians can't be trusted. Everything he has said since he announced his candidacy should be considered with a grain of salt.

Swoop187 · #58 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

This economy WILL NOT recover until republicans come in and put more money into the peoples pockets via tax cuts. The more money people have, the more they will spend, thats a fact.

Liberals hate the idea because this means NO MONEY for lazy fucks who don't work and it makes it even more difficult for liberals to spend money on social programs.

I see signs of recovery in late in 2011, early 2012.

EagleTed · #59 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefe

Good point, thanks for reminding me that politicians can't be trusted. Everything he has said since he announced his candidacy should be considered with a grain of salt.

I don't have a problem with that logic. OTOH, as far as I can see, other than his non-partisan actual economist work, Krugman is always toting water for Socialism in his opinion pieces. Therefore, applying your standard, why should anyone trust anything he says?

bg85 · #60 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurf

Ignore what Peter Schiff says about the economy at your own peril. He was right about the economy long before he decided to run for the Senate.

not ignoring, just skeptical as i am of all politicians. the fact that he is running for senate means he has a good reason to preach doom and gloom...even if he knows that's not where we're headed.

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