Thread: So what really happen to "made in the USA"

Originally Posted by Invisible-Bob

In the 1960's 9 out of 10 products purchased in America was made in America. Now most are made in China or somewhere else. I'm no expert on this so I'm asking exactly: what happened? I hope some folks with some real knowledge can answer this question with real facts because I really would like to know what happen.

Japan happened

Originally Posted by Sadanie

You're right! I'm typing this on my old manual typewriter! You're a genius, aren't you?
Yes, so we go back to what we were saying: GREED happened. . .and all those wonderful innovations come to light in the good old USA, then go to manufacturing lines in Asia. . .and get copied there and built at a much cheaper price!

Yep. . .Greed got us!
By the way. . .my husband is one of the "old timer" in the electronic industry!

Did I not mention Intel the largest chip manufacture in the world. Oh and it's right here in the old US of A. I know I did not mention Cisco System, who it the largest manufacturer of main line routing systems.

You old time liberals live in the past. You mentioned innovations and we innovate, and we manufacture, the problem with you living in the past is you see manufacturing in an assembly line of employees and one person putting in a bolt and the next person putting on the washer and nut.

You old time liberals think now days everything is made in China. Sorry to disappoint you but that is not true. And having things made at a cheaper price, I see as a good thing, it makes a product more affordable to more people. And more affordable products raises a persons standard of living. How can that not be a good thing. But you old liberals want to keep people stupid so they continue voting in Dem's to their detriment.

And I'll bet you don't have one item not made in the good old USA. Yeah right. Then you bitch when a company outsources. Hell we outsource 20 million jobs right here at home, letting illegals take good American jobs. But you liberals think that is just fine and dandy. Then we send 500 billion to foreign countries a yr to buy their oil, why because you liberals think oil is evil. Yet if we brought that 500 billion back home everyear and the jobs that go with it this country would boom. But you liberals don't care about jobs, never have never will.

Originally Posted by Sadanie

I believe what happened is GREED. The "bosses," the "owners," wanted more profit. . .they didn't want produce a widget at a cost of $5.00, and sell it for $7.00. . .they found out that, if they moved their manufacturing in asia, or Pakistan, they could have that widget built at a cost of $2.00, and still sell it at $7.00!

God forbid a company adjusts its' manufacturing to realize as much profit as possible. Oh, the fucking horror.

What your answer neglects to mention are a number of things which may very well dictate that making $2.00 profit on a widget isn't enough. There's the cost of labor, equipment, property, materials, energy... shall I go on? I notice you don't seem to have a problem with the high cost of things that actually effect the cost of manufacturing...

Originally Posted by Forplay

Did I not mention Intel the largest chip manufacture in the world. Oh and it's right here in the old US of A. I know I did not mention Cisco System, who it the largest manufacturer of main line routing systems.

You old time liberals live in the past. You mentioned innovations and we innovate, and we manufacture, the problem with you living in the past is you see manufacturing in an assembly line of employees and one person putting in a bolt and the next person putting on the washer and nut.

You old time liberals think now days everything is made in China. Sorry to disappoint you but that is not true. And having things made at a cheaper price, I see as a good thing, it makes a product more affordable to more people. And more affordable products raises a persons standard of living. How can that not be a good thing. But you old liberals want to keep people stupid so they continue voting in Dem's to their detriment.

And I'll bet you don't have one item not made in the good old USA. Yeah right. Then you bitch when a company outsources. Hell we outsource 20 million jobs right here at home, letting illegals take good American jobs. But you liberals think that is just fine and dandy. Then we send 500 billion to foreign countries a yr to buy their oil, why because you liberals think oil is evil. Yet if we brought that 500 billion back home everyear and the jobs that go with it this country would boom. But you liberals don't care about jobs, never have never will.

Why are you so aggressive?
As I told you, my husband worked for those "big electronic companies" for over 40 years. . .until he retired!

And you are right that I don't have much that is made in the USA. . .because there isn't much, unfortunately!

And I do value those innovation jobs, engineering positions, etc. . .but I would value the simple manufacturing jobs as well. .. that is what raised several generations of Americans. . .maybe even you!

Seeing those jobs gone overseas is nothing to be happy or proud about, especially if NOTHING is replacing those jobs. . and people who so hate liberals tend to be the hardest on "unemployed" people because. . .they are "lazy" and "take advantage of the system!"

So, how can you feel okay with losing all the manufacturing jobs, and then blame the workers for being out of work?

Another disconnect with our friendly Republicans!

Originally Posted by Invisible-Bob

There is no telling how many jobs have been lost due to enviromental laws that were not needed but were passed when hippies started getting elected into political positions.

Yes, there certainly is a way of telling, with great confidence, exactly how many jobs have been lost to that process.

Zero.

Originally Posted by Occam's Razor

What we should instead be focusing on is educating our public better so they can get better jobs.

While I certainly do agree we need to do a better job of education, I do not agree that that is the solution to the problem of outsourcing. It's often advanced as a cure-all, but what that shows me (yet again) is that many people have a hard time extrapolating from what may work for the individual to see that it won't work if the whole nation does it.

The number of jobs requiring a particular type of education is set by market forces unrelated to how many people are educated in that way. For example, there is a market for X number of personal computers, which means there are jobs for Y number of software programmers for PCs, which means that only Y people who study in that field will be able to work at it. There are only so many doctors needed, so many nurses, so many lawyers, so many architects, etc., etc. In general, there are only so many jobs in the entire job market that call for an advanced degree, so (to take this to its logical-conclusion silliness) getting everyone a Masters degree or better would only mean that we had people with a Masters degree flipping burgers.

Now at the same time, I'm going to acknowledge that in some fields there probably are shortages due to lack of well-educated people, so this is still worth doing and might ameliorate things somewhat. And anyway, education never hurts. (If nothing else, it tends to reduce the number of conservatives.)

But to see this as the solution to our problems all by itself is not good thinking.

Originally Posted by Sadanie

Then, how do you explain that countries like Germany, for exemple is HIGHLY successful in the production of cars, although they have MUCH more restrictive environmental criteria, and more social and labor laws (and health care) that in most Republican's book would "kill jobs in the US?"

Because they make good cars and always have and always will.

Detroit has only recently stopped producing junk. They still have a bad reputation IMHO and I’ll generally look to a European or Japanese car. ( In fact that is all I have ever bought.)

I have a good friend who will not buy anything "Made in China" because
"it is all junk". That can limit what you will buy.
I was surprised that my and his HP Laptops were "Made in China" - we both found out after buying.

"Made in USA" is gone because USA became non-competitive for 2 reasons:

1)Unions driving up wages

2)Minimum wage laws

These 2 factors limit the ability of USA to vary and bend depending on the market.

Addenum: Also environmental based interference in the markets

Let the Market (and wages) seek its own level, like water.

[B]
BTW,,it is liberal,progressive thrusts(above)that have destroyed the USA[/B]

Originally Posted by Forplay

As for their cars, Mercedes Benz is a big seller for the one's that can afford them, other than that they are not anywhere close to a power house in manufacturing cars.

Well, there are a couple of other german brands like Porsche, BMW, Volkswagen, and in spite of Opel beeing a GM daughter it is made in Germany. These combined make a considerable share of the worlds car market.

Originally Posted by 9aces

Well to start with, they build much better cars than any US manufacturer. And they don't build all of their cars in Europe anymore do they?

Germany has outsourced largely manual jobs with little qualification. Which means parts of cars may also be made in China or Korea. The know-how and the qualified jobs have always remained in Germany though.

Originally Posted by Sadanie

Then, how do you explain that countries like Germany, for exemple is HIGHLY successful in the production of cars, although they have MUCH more restrictive environmental criteria, and more social and labor laws (and health care) that in most Republican's book would "kill jobs in the US?"

Since german companies took the long view and invested in a qualified and skilled workforce ( that may be more expensive but is also more productive).
Since Germany never outsourced its highly competitive key industries and their know-how in spite of that beeing superficially more expensive.
At the same time Unions agreed to moderate wage settlements in return for companies guaranteeing jobs for a certain amount of time and investing in employee qualification, taking a cooperative approach with employers......
To mention a couple of things out of my head...........

Originally Posted by Voland

Since german companies took the long view and invested in a qualified and skilled workforce ( that may be more expensive but is also more productive).
Since Germany never outsourced its highly competitive key industries and their know-how in spite of that beeing superficially more expensive.
At the same time Unions agreed to moderate wage settlements in return for companies guaranteeing jobs for a certain amount of time and investing in employee qualification, taking a cooperative approach with employers......
To mention a couple of things out of my head...........

I will agree with you in nearly every statement. I do believe the German workforce is a good work force, but no more so than in many countries. I believe the education system makes a big difference. How many weeks of paid time off each year? How many holidays? Beer in the vending machines? Lots of factors there to overcome when competing with, say, Chinese workers.

Originally Posted by George Law

I have a good friend who will not buy anything "Made in China" because
"it is all junk". That can limit what you will buy.
I was surprised that my and his HP Laptops were "Made in China" - we both found out after buying.

"Made in USA" is gone because USA became non-competitive for 2 reasons:

1)Unions driving up wages

2)Minimum wage laws

These 2 factors limit the ability of USA to vary and bend depending on the market.

Addenum: Also environmental based interference in the markets

Let the Market (and wages) seek its own level, like water.

[B]
BTW,,it is liberal,progressive thrusts(above)that have destroyed the USA[/B]

Bingo!! we have a winner.

Also add the COST of hiring a human being to do a job in the United States (Medical, social security, Medicare, unemployment ins, Disability ins long and short term, liability insurance, union fees..)

Now plan for OSHA, EPA, and and every other state and federal law and or guidelines, and its just easier and cheaper to make products elsewhere.

I wish someone would create a time line where they trace the rise of unions, inception of SS, and the decline of items made in the united States from 1920 to the present day.