Thread: Raising the Debt Ceiling -- Looking Better

Originally Posted by 9aces

Of course none of that, or anything else is going to work unless entitlements get reined in and fast, and starting to realize the US isn't working in a vacuum anymore when it comes to tax rates on businesses and their owners. Raise their costs, and Ireland, or Switzerland is going to start running ads "come here, and pay less".

I know you hate entitlements. And so you and your fellow conservatives have developed elaborate theories as to why they are unsustainable.

But these are the facts on the ground:

1) Entitlements in the US take up far fewer of our resources than in other developed nations where the social safety net is much more robust. We can affort to provide some social security to our citizens without bankrupting ourselves.
2) What social safety net we have, is extremely popular (because people realize how essential it is,) and politicians mess with it at their peril. Just look at the 26th District in NY. Just look at Republican politicians running like hell from their vote to destroy Medicare and Medicaid a few months ago.

Originally Posted by jpn

I know you hate entitlements. And so you and your fellow conservatives have developed elaborate theories as to why they are unsustainable.

But these are the facts on the ground:

1) Entitlements in the US take up far fewer of our resources than in other developed nations where the social safety net is much more robust. We can affort to provide some social security to our citizens without bankrupting ourselves.
2) What social safety net we have, is extremely popular (because people realize how essential it is,) and politicians mess with it at their peril. Just look at the 26th District in NY. Just look at Republican politicians running like hell from their vote to destroy Medicare and Medicaid a few months ago.

Um...not sure if you've noticed, but a lot of those other countries are finding out they can't pay for it either.

Originally Posted by jpn

I know you hate entitlements. And so you and your fellow conservatives have developed elaborate theories as to why they are unsustainable.

But these are the facts on the ground:

1) Entitlements in the US take up far fewer of our resources than in other developed nations where the social safety net is much more robust. We can affort to provide some social security to our citizens without bankrupting ourselves.
2) What social safety net we have, is extremely popular (because people realize how essential it is,) and politicians mess with it at their peril. Just look at the 26th District in NY. Just look at Republican politicians running like hell from their vote to destroy Medicare and Medicaid a few months ago.

Uh... not sure what you've been smoking there Commander. But you may want to take a look and the financials of those socialist policies in the countries you are referring to.

And you wonder what planet I'm from.

Originally Posted by 9aces

Um...not sure if you've noticed, but a lot of those other countries are finding out they can't pay for it either.

Perhaps 9aces could tell us which countries are ending which entitlements and why they can't afford them.

There has been reduction of pension benefits in Greece and Ireland as a condition for loans from the EU central bank. The debt crisis, which is the cause of austerity program, has nothing to do with the cost of entitlement programs in these countries. The crisis came from dishonest bankers both in an out of government blowing up a bubble of real estate speculation.

It was capitalism, not socialism which crashed economies from Iceland to Florida. Entitlement spending is economically benign. Money spent on health, education and welfare circulates within the domestic consumer economy. Some rich people don't like paying taxes to sustain poor people but the process is actually healthy for the national economy.

Running the economy on imported energy, snuffing out local manufacturing by allowing a flood of cheap improrted goods, allowing wealth concentration to reduce consumer spending, these are the things that hurt the national economy.

Originally Posted by CSA

ok you want to take money out of the pockets of the RICH, and then hope with less money they start hiring more.

then when they do this you want to tax everyone else more so they have less money to spend at these business's meaning less money for the business who will now have to fire people?


Really thats your big idea??

seriously???

I forgot to ask what is rich to you? and how much more should they pay in taxes..

It must be nice to be completely oblivious to reality.
Taxes on the wealthy are lower than they have been for a couple of decades, we should be swimming in jobs if your theory held an ounce of water.

But the big growth is jobs happened when taxes were raised, and since taxes have been cut, there has pretty much been zero private sector job growth.

So do you ever check in on reality, or do you just go with "revealed truth"?

Originally Posted by 9aces

Um...not sure if you've noticed, but a lot of those other countries are finding out they can't pay for it either.

Sure, it should be noticed by all what worldwide recessions enabled by banking and finance deregs, do to social saftey nets.

What you see today, is due to the great Recession, at least much of it. What we share with the rest of the developed world is that we too are in a really bad recession, with millions unemployed, and no hope of decent jobs to fill.

But I know the Pubs are not letting a crisis go unused. They are very good at this.

Originally Posted by goober

It must be nice to be completely oblivious to reality.
Taxes on the wealthy are lower than they have been for a couple of decades, we should be swimming in jobs if your theory held an ounce of water.

But the big growth is jobs happened when taxes were raised, and since taxes have been cut, there has pretty much been zero private sector job growth.

So do you ever check in on reality, or do you just go with "revealed truth"?

Others are doing it differently
In Germany the governement has ruled out tax decreases in spite of economic boom times to be able to pay off state debt and consolidate the budget and has broad public support for that.........

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

What you see today, is due to the great Recession, at least much of it. What we share with the rest of the developed world is that we too are in a really bad recession, with millions unemployed, and no hope of decent jobs to fill.

That is not the case in most of central and northern Europe, especially Germany and Scandinavia.......

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...762363,00.html

Originally Posted by George Aligator

Perhaps 9aces could tell us which countries are ending which entitlements and why they can't afford them.

There has been reduction of pension benefits in Greece and Ireland as a condition for loans from the EU central bank. The debt crisis, which is the cause of austerity program, has nothing to do with the cost of entitlement programs in these countries. The crisis came from dishonest bankers both in an out of government blowing up a bubble of real estate speculation.

It was capitalism, not socialism which crashed economies from Iceland to Florida. Entitlement spending is economically benign. Money spent on health, education and welfare circulates within the domestic consumer economy. Some rich people don't like paying taxes to sustain poor people but the process is actually healthy for the national economy.

Running the economy on imported energy, snuffing out local manufacturing by allowing a flood of cheap improrted goods, allowing wealth concentration to reduce consumer spending, these are the things that hurt the national economy.

Greece, Spain, Ireland, Portugal, Belgium, Italy, France, England.

And that's just off the top of my head.

Originally Posted by 9aces

Greece, Spain, Ireland, Portugal, Belgium, Italy, France, England.

And that's just off the top of my head.

Belgium, Italy, France and Britain all have their problems, but aren´t in any serious trouble that I am aware of right now. And neither Spain, nor Ireland nor Greece nor Portugal are in trouble because of any social entitlements. You are welcome to prove otherwise.

Originally Posted by Voland

Belgium, Italy, France and Britain all have their problems, but aren´t in any serious trouble that I am aware of right now. And neither Spain, nor Ireland nor Greece nor Portugal are in trouble because of any social entitlements. You are welcome to prove otherwise.

Oh so they're not having to talk about cutting them back because they can't afford it?

Gee, guess they were wrong when they said things like.

Greece announces $6.53 billion in budget cuts - Mar. 3, 2010

Cal Thomas: U.S. should follow Britain's lead on cutting | Wichita Eagle

Europeans shift long-held view that social benefits are untouchable - The Washington Post

Euro contagion fears hit Spain and Italy - CNN.com

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - B. Hussein Obama, 2006

He doesn't know what he's doing.

Originally Posted by Voland

Belgium, Italy, France and Britain all have their problems, but aren´t in any serious trouble that I am aware of right now. And neither Spain, nor Ireland nor Greece nor Portugal are in trouble because of any social entitlements. You are welcome to prove otherwise.

Are you serious, could the problem be you don't know anything?

Originally Posted by George Aligator

Perhaps 9aces could tell us which countries are ending which entitlements and why they can't afford them.

There has been reduction of pension benefits in Greece and Ireland as a condition for loans from the EU central bank. The debt crisis, which is the cause of austerity program, has nothing to do with the cost of entitlement programs in these countries. The crisis came from dishonest bankers both in an out of government blowing up a bubble of real estate speculation.

It was capitalism, not socialism which crashed economies from Iceland to Florida. Entitlement spending is economically benign. Money spent on health, education and welfare circulates within the domestic consumer economy. Some rich people don't like paying taxes to sustain poor people but the process is actually healthy for the national economy.

Running the economy on imported energy, snuffing out local manufacturing by allowing a flood of cheap improrted goods, allowing wealth concentration to reduce consumer spending, these are the things that hurt the national economy.

Have you not noticed the stock market lately, concerned about European debt. I know all you liberals keep your head in the sand, but pull it out and look around.

That's right every countries problem is they outsource. And your solution is for every country to close their border. Good one. Meaning manufacture all your own goods and ship nothing out, as every country is not going to buy from you. Why because every country is supplying their own goods. Interesting how you liberals see things. However foreign trade have been going on since mankind. And now that all has to stop, according to you.

Originally Posted by 9aces

Oh so they're not having to talk about cutting them back because they can't afford it?

Gee, guess they were wrong when they said things like.

Greece announces $6.53 billion in budget cuts - Mar. 3, 2010

Cal Thomas: U.S. should follow Britain's lead on cutting | Wichita Eagle

Europeans shift long-held view that social benefits are untouchable - The Washington Post

Euro contagion fears hit Spain and Italy - CNN.com

Yes, SOME countries are having to make budget cuts, to bring debt and deficits down ( many of them actually less indebted than the US by the way). But your claim was that the reason were social entitlements. Which is wrong and not proven by any of your links.