Thread: The United States is a Low Tax Country

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

ahoy JPN,

whilst i agree with ye mate, don't ye see raisin' taxes as an impossibility? i mean, from me own perch here in the crows nest, raisin' taxes seems as politically radioactive as cuttin' medicare.

- MeadHallPirate

Every poll I've seen says that people are happy with a millionaires tax, or a tax on the top rate.

I support that for now, because it wouldn't have much effect on the economy. Once unemployment drops to 5% or so and economic forecasts are solid, then return all the rates to the Clinton-era rates. Would people support that? Maybe not. Those tax hikes did cost the Democrats heavily in 1994.

Originally Posted by 9aces

Yes, that was for their own reasons they did so. You are no different from me in that you will do anything for your own reasons and justify it any way you want.

In you case it isn't because your desire for society being better is greater, it's that your desire to see a society YOU favor has a better chance to exist.

Your motivation is your own, and not society's. As is mine, the difference being, I don't delude myself as to it's source and motive.

One of these days you'll see the truth. Everyone does eventually, the only question is how long you'll lie to yourself before that happens.

Beautiful. Selflessness is the equivalent of greed.

So say the greedy.

Originally Posted by jpn

Beautiful. Selflessness is the equivalent of greed.

So say the greedy.

You are no different. There is no selflessness, or haven't you figured that out yet?

There is only the motivations of those individuals for their own reasons that benefit others.

Never mind, you're one of the worst at lying to themselves, you won't see it until you learn wisdom one day.

Some people derive happiness from helping others, some derive it from directly helping themselves. Those who derive happiness from helping others while sacraficing their own comfort are called selfless while those who refuse to sacrafice for others or will do harm to others or deny benefit to others with little to no consideration of their feelings are called selfish.

One can try a semantic debate based on the premise that the selfless person derives happiness from being selfless but this is being obtuse. It requires one to ignore what is being communicated.

Semantic discussions have their place. They are meant to confirm what meaning is being communicated, not hide it.

The problem with taxation in this country is that the effective tax rates are regressive and the benefits derived from government do not match the benefits received in other countries. Specifically the lack of universal health care mean that the middle class in the US is getting taxed at a higher % and getting significantly less.

Also the treatment of capital gains and the fact that a growing percentage of income in the US is in the form of capital gains means we will continue to rely more and more on taxing wages.

More evidence:



I don't say that tax hikes are the only answer to our deficit issue. But to say that no tax increases should even be considered is radical, illogical, ideological, and unsupportable. And massive spending cuts while we have 9 percent unemployment is insane.

More data here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/59076701/U...oped-Countries

Originally Posted by jpn

More evidence:



I don't say that tax hikes are the only answer to our deficit issue. But to say that no tax increases should even be considered is radical, illogical, ideological, and unsupportable. And massive spending cuts while we have 9 percent unemployment is insane.

More data here: U.S. Is One of the Least Taxed Developed Countries

Another great link JPN. Reality posting.

The big question is... why does everyone here who is a communist keep wanting higher taxes?


Do they think higher taxes will lead to a commie/pinko utopia?

One serious flaw in that comparison.

Most of the industrialized countries in the world have some sort of government provided universal health care or health care insurance.

In other words my Canadian tax bill includes health care where the US tax bill is after health care costs have been removed.

Looking at bare tax rates is an apples and oranges situation.

Shall we look at the some industrialized countries?


%GDP Tax revenue+ % GDP paid for private health care= total health care and tax bill


All data from

Expenditure, Private % of gdp statistics - countries compared - NationMaster Health

Tax Revenue % of gdp statistics - countries compared - NationMaster Taxation



Japan 11.94 + 1.48 = 13.42
Germany 11.79 + 2.45 = 14.24
Canada 12.93 + 2.96 = 15.89
USA 8.46 + 8.52 = 16.98
France 21.44 + 2.27 = 23.71
Italy 22.62 + 2.17 = 24.79
UK 28.46 + 1.11 = 29.57

Of course you could make similar adjustments for other services offered by governments. I picked health care costs as this is most likely the most significant cost component that will differ between countries. Defecits and military spending differences may also be significant.

The interesting thing is how close the lowest 4 countries are compaired to the higher 3

To drop in an example of another tax cut debate elsewhere. In Germany only about half of the population would support tax cuts in general and the politician most vehemently opposed to tax cuts has just become the most popular member of Angela Merkels governement, finance minister Schäuble. Most Germans, according to polls, prefer balancing the budget and paying off public debt to tax decreases, in spite of the economic boom

: Only half of Germans want tax cuts - The Local

Originally Posted by jpn

But to say that no tax increases should even be considered is radical,

actually more taxes means more liberal government control and power. Opposing that is not radical, its what the Founders wanted, i.e, freedom and liberty from government.

Originally Posted by Brutus

actually more taxes means more liberal government control and power. Opposing that is not radical, its what the Founders wanted, i.e, freedom and liberty from government.

What about paying for the government you have now?

What about paying for your accumulated debt?

How can you cut taxes, unless you cut spending even more to achieve a surplus budget position so you can start paying for the overspending of the last few decades?

Originally Posted by RDK

What about paying for the government you have now?

what about it?????????

Originally Posted by RDK

What about paying for your accumulated debt?

what about it??? All agree it has to be paid for??????-right??????

Originally Posted by RDK

How can you cut taxes, unless you cut spending even more to achieve a surplus budget position so you can start paying for the overspending of the last few decades?

the more you tax the private economy the worse it performs. Its like bleeding a dying man to save him. Only a liberal would have the low IQ to think that makes sense.

Here's an example. If you tax capital gains there is less capital for new ventures like Intel Google Facebook, HP, etc. When liberals steal capital this way and waste it on welfare they are destroying our future.