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Thread: It's the Free Trade, Stupid

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    michael h is offline Vice President
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    It's the Free Trade, Stupid

    9% plus unemployment, 15 years of experience with "free trade" and economic failure. I look at it and wonder why people are blind to the negatives of trade deficits and the destruction caused to Americas economy. We see the same in Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, and Spain. I've looked at polls in the past and free trade was above a 60% approval rating.

    Is it because we love our corporations? Is it because of cheap goods? If a corporation wants to go to China ... go! That doesn't mean America can't slap a tariff on those goods you want ship into the USA.

    Is 9% unemployment a success? Is the downgrading of Americas debt by the S+P a sign of policy success? Is a budget deficit in the trillions a sign of success?

    Who didn't want free trade to be successful? I wanted it to succeed. Guess what its a failure ... America is still waiting for jobs to be created. Oh! and we want more free trade agreements. Just how much job loss and trade deficits can America endure?

    Ian Fletcher: It's the Free Trade, Stupid
    It's the Free Trade, Stupid

    One point seems largely to have been missed in recent weeks, amid all the excitement over the Federal budget and the sovereign-debt crises in Europe: free trade is largely the root cause of all these problems. So let's trace the causation for a minute.

    Start with the Federal budget. Federal revenues are derived from the underlying economy, and therefore, if the underlying economy were larger, revenues would be, too -- even without any tax increases. As a result, anything that causes the U.S. economy to be smaller, tends to widen any gap between taxes and revenues.

    Enter free trade.

    For it is thanks to America's embrace of free trade (whether genuinely free or not; that's another issue) that we have been running giant trade deficits for years. And these have been costing us economic growth.

    The Economic Strategy Institute, a Washington think tank, estimated in 2001 that the trade deficit was shaving at least one percent per year off our economic growth. (See the 2006 report "China's Financial System and Monetary Policies: The Impact on U.S. Exchange Rates, Capital Markets, and Interest Rates" of the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission for the details.) This may not sound like much, but because GDP growth is cumulative, it compounds over time. Economist William Bahr has thus estimated that America's trade deficits since 1991 alone -- they stretch back unbroken to 1976 -- have caused our economy to be 13 percent smaller than it otherwise would be.

    That's an economic hole larger than the entire Canadian economy.

    Other economists have reached similar conclusions. William A. Lovett estimated in 2004 that, "With stronger, reciprocity-based trade policy, U.S. GDP could have been 10 to 20 percent higher." Another estimate, by Charles McMillion, notes that in the 25 years up to 1980, our real GDP grew at an average of 3.8 per year. But in the 25 years afterwards, as our trade deficit ballooned, it averaged only 3.1 percent.

    This is why we're being forced into budget cuts and/or tax increases. We just don't have a big enough economy to pay for the spending we've voted for at the tax rates we've voted for.

    The above is usually treated as a conservative insight, because the implication is that economic growth is the real answer to our problem, not higher taxes. The Wall Street Journal crowd loves this stuff. Unfortunately, that school of opinion also loves free trade, which is driving our growth down, not up. So the free-marketeers have painted themselves into a corner here, and it's no accident they don't have a solution.

    Now for the debt part of the equation. As I have noted before, a nation's accumulation of debt is closely linked to its running of trade deficits, because when we import more than we export, we must pay for it by either selling off existing assets or accumulating debt. (This is a simple matter of accounting, not even economics, so it shouldn't be that controversial, no matter how controversial other aspect of the issue are.)

    Over the past 35 years or so that we have been running trade deficits, we have mostly paid for this by assuming debt, and especially in recent years, a huge part of that debt has been public debt. One consequence has been that in order to manipulate the dollar price of its currency downward and boost exports, China has been buying huge amounts of U.S. Treasury securities. Thus the same mechanism that caused our trade deficits also increased our governmental debt.

    If the United States had enforced balanced trade (i.e. no trade deficit) during this period, China would not have bothered manipulating its currency, as it would not thereby have been able to obtain a trade surplus with the U.S. Therefore it would not have accumulated its present huge holdings of U.S. debt and we would not be so indebted today.

    It was, indeed, this artificially-induced flood of cheap foreign cash that enabled us to borrow so much money in the first place. So much money, at such low interest rates, would not have been available if we had confined ourselves to domestic sources of funds; the upwards pressure on domestic interest rates would have choked off government borrowing at some point.

    The decision to raise so large a part of the government's budget from foreign borrowing dates back to Ronald Reagan's presidency, most explicitly to the 1984 decision by Treasury Secretary Donald Regan to effectively exempt foreign holders of our bonds from taxation. All subsequent administrations (with the limited exception of the latter part of Bill Clinton's presidency, when the U.S. was running budget surpluses) have welcomed the resulting availability of cheap foreign capital.

    In the short run, it was a great deal, holding down interest rates and taxes alike. In the long run...

    The above analysis holds, in slightly different form, in Europe. Nations like Greece, Portugal, Italy, and Spain have also run chronic trade deficits for years. As in our own case, their deficits were bridged by foreign credit -- largely from Greater Germany (Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Denmark, Finland, Sweden, and Holland.)

    As in our own case, the willingness of foreigners to lend them money was politically inflated -- in their case by the replacement of national currencies by the euro, which enabled un-creditworthy governments like Greece to borrow on terms similar to those of creditworthy governments like Germany.

    Because these European nations have smaller and weaker economies than the U.S., and because they borrowed in a currency which (unlike our own situation with the dollar) they cannot print, the inevitable long-term consequences hit them first. But we are not going to be exempt forever.

    The underlying lesson is the same in our case and theirs: free trade causes trade deficits and therefore debt. The free market, on its own, will neither limit the accumulation of excessive debt nor redress the excess once it has been created. Government is eventually forced to step in, to solve a crisis it could have largely avoided if it had not embraced free trade in the first place.
    “If we open up our borders … we could suppress wages of middle class jobs” – Alan Greenspan
    We need to suppress the wage levels of the skilled. We need to suppress wages in comparison to the “lesser skilled ” - Alan Greenspan

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    Re: It's the Free Trade, Stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
    American labor doesn't want to compete
    American labor didn't compete for 200 years of protectionism, and we didn't end up with an economy like this. The article makes the point we can't keep running trade deficits.
    “If we open up our borders … we could suppress wages of middle class jobs” – Alan Greenspan
    We need to suppress the wage levels of the skilled. We need to suppress wages in comparison to the “lesser skilled ” - Alan Greenspan

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    Re: It's the Free Trade, Stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by michael h View Post
    American labor didn't compete for 200 years of protectionism, and we didn't end up with an economy like this.
    This is our fist recession?
    Quote Originally Posted by michael h View Post
    The article makes the point we can't keep running trade deficits.
    We don't have to run trade deficits. We can use our own energy sources, and compete with foreign labor.

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    Re: It's the Free Trade, Stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
    This is our fist recession?

    We don't have to run trade deficits. We can use our own energy sources, and compete with foreign labor.
    Simply put ... things look grim. More job exports on the horizon. Do you think we are better off now then ten years ago? IMHO we are not better off.

    What could we have done with the 14 trillion dollars in deficit that supported our corporations exporting of jobs? 14 trillion dollars and a recession to support free trade. Maybe we could spend another 14 trillion continuing to support failed trade policy.
    “If we open up our borders … we could suppress wages of middle class jobs” – Alan Greenspan
    We need to suppress the wage levels of the skilled. We need to suppress wages in comparison to the “lesser skilled ” - Alan Greenspan

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    Re: It's the Free Trade, Stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
    American labor doesn't want to compete

    Getting by in the U.S. on $10.00 a day is a little tricky.

    Average Salary In China | 2010/2011 Survey

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    Re: It's the Free Trade, Stupid

    michael,
    The media is owned by multi-national corps that thrive off of cheap labor and thus extol the global economy.
    The server(s) that hold these postings are owned by MNCs and most probably maintained by cheap, 24/7, compliant Indians.
    Everybody I talk to has at least one relative or friend who has been replaced by the business visa they had to train.

    Until very recently, most of the "productive" investors I have discussed this with have extolled the virtues of economic "efficiency"; you know, one cheap foreigner doing the work of three laid off Americans.
    They just can't get enough...until the consumer market implodes and the market crashes.
    Suddenly, a whole bunch of "productive" people who produce nothing but market orders all day are crying that the global economy has gone too far.
    You see, these "productive" members of society have lost a great deal of the assets that were supposed to protect their precious children who weren't going to be forced to be "efficient".
    Now many of their children can be slaves also.

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    Re: It's the Free Trade, Stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by JDJarvis View Post
    Getting by in the U.S. on $10.00 a day is a little tricky.

    Average Salary In China | 2010/2011 Survey
    Particularly if you have to give five of them to the government.

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    Re: It's the Free Trade, Stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
    This is our fist recession?

    We don't have to run trade deficits. We can use our own energy sources, and compete with foreign labor.
    A comparison of wages ... do you think you can compete? The USA even with compensation decreased is $33 hr. China in 2008 was $1.36 hr. Do the math you can't survive on that in America.

    Hourly compensation China and India.jpg

    world compensation.jpg

    Software programmers wages comp.jpg

    International Labor Comparisons (ILC)

    Last edited by michael h; 08-10-2011 at 09:25 PM.
    “If we open up our borders … we could suppress wages of middle class jobs” – Alan Greenspan
    We need to suppress the wage levels of the skilled. We need to suppress wages in comparison to the “lesser skilled ” - Alan Greenspan

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    Re: It's the Free Trade, Stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by USCitizen View Post
    michael,
    The media is owned by multi-national corps that thrive off of cheap labor and thus extol the global economy.
    The server(s) that hold these postings are owned by MNCs and most probably maintained by cheap, 24/7, compliant Indians.
    Everybody I talk to has at least one relative or friend who has been replaced by the business visa they had to train.

    Until very recently, most of the "productive" investors I have discussed this with have extolled the virtues of economic "efficiency"; you know, one cheap foreigner doing the work of three laid off Americans.
    They just can't get enough...until the consumer market implodes and the market crashes.
    Suddenly, a whole bunch of "productive" people who produce nothing but market orders all day are crying that the global economy has gone too far.
    You see, these "productive" members of society have lost a great deal of the assets that were supposed to protect their precious children who weren't going to be forced to be "efficient".
    Now many of their children can be slaves also.
    Near the end of 2000 Americas unemployment was 4%. That is also the same time China gained PNTR. Trade deficits from China fueled the housing boom that staved off the recession for a few years. It was inevitable we would crash as crashs are a symptom of trade deficits.

    Mexico wasn't as bad as China because their wages were more reasonable to compete with. Either way we continue doing things the same way that got us into this situation. We certainly are not better off now then in 2000.
    “If we open up our borders … we could suppress wages of middle class jobs” – Alan Greenspan
    We need to suppress the wage levels of the skilled. We need to suppress wages in comparison to the “lesser skilled ” - Alan Greenspan

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    Re: It's the Free Trade, Stupid

    michael,
    Hard code investors love cost cutting; they don't give a sh!t who gets hurt as long as they are seeing immediate gains.
    That's why investors see the economy in snapshots, sort of like one commission at a time.

    All I know is that people are getting 10-20% pay cuts or losing their jobs due to a flooding of the American job market by foreign nationals and the constant daily off-shoring of blue and white collar jobs.
    But don't worry, sending millions of jobs to other nations is good for our economy..."How so?", said I to my deer-in-the-headlight investor friends.

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    Re: It's the Free Trade, Stupid

    michael,
    I omitted one very important piece of information...
    When a market maniac has no answer, he or she will include some nonsense phrase like, "fluctuating interest rates".
    If you can't dazzle them with brillaince, baffle them with bullsh!t.

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    Re: It's the Free Trade, Stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by USCitizen View Post
    michael,
    I omitted one very important piece of information...
    When a market maniac has no answer, he or she will include some nonsense phrase like, "fluctuating interest rates".
    If you can't dazzle them with brillaince, baffle them with bullsh!t.
    “If we open up our borders … we could suppress wages of middle class jobs” – Alan Greenspan
    We need to suppress the wage levels of the skilled. We need to suppress wages in comparison to the “lesser skilled ” - Alan Greenspan

  14. #14
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    Re: It's the Free Trade, Stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by USCitizen View Post
    michael,
    Hard code investors love cost cutting; they don't give a sh!t who gets hurt as long as they are seeing immediate gains.
    That's why investors see the economy in snapshots, sort of like one commission at a time.

    All I know is that people are getting 10-20% pay cuts or losing their jobs due to a flooding of the American job market by foreign nationals and the constant daily off-shoring of blue and white collar jobs.
    But don't worry, sending millions of jobs to other nations is good for our economy..."How so?", said I to my deer-in-the-headlight investor friends.
    Funny how its so good for our economy ... yet the economy is in a shambles.
    “If we open up our borders … we could suppress wages of middle class jobs” – Alan Greenspan
    We need to suppress the wage levels of the skilled. We need to suppress wages in comparison to the “lesser skilled ” - Alan Greenspan

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    Re: It's the Free Trade, Stupid

    We can't compete with labor costs, but we did better when the US workers were the highest paid, now we're 14th and countries with higher wages are killing us on the products we should be making here.

    That's not a labor issue, that's an infrastructure issue. We haven't had a major infrastructure improvement program since the 1950's.
    All those nations that pay their workers more, have universal health care, and still beat us on exports, have A) spent money on infrastructure that we haven't, B) socialized the cost of health care rather than imposing it as a tax on manufacturing.

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