Thread: Stop Coddling the super Rich

Originally Posted by C-B-M

Yeah, but I think we decided that the government doesn't coddle the rich.

You are correct, government doesn't coddle the rich, the rich own the government.

Originally Posted by C-B-M

That is absolutely right. I'm not arguing with you there. My only point is that the reason people were gambing in derivatives in the first place was because 1) the government told them they had to issue the mortgages and 2) the government guaranteed the mortgages. A lot of people who are populists like to point at the banks and say "see, they're the problem!" Uh, no, they're not. They acted quite logically, given the set of circumstances that they were in.

Actually you dismiss banking interests very lightly considering the history of banking in America. They are as powerful, if not more powerful then corporations. How many central banks has the US had? Central banks that challenged the government for supremacy of the US and eventually won anyway in 1913. Banks get what they want, and if they wanted deregulation they got it. Bernanke made them a priority for bailouts ... not exact words but interpreted by some one in the FED ... we must bail out the gamblers ... they are the priority. The FED has a nice fractional business and they and the banks are nobodies dupes ... remember why you pay taxes ultimately ... banking interests in 1913 decided you would. If there was it logic to be recognized ... leverage is a practice they are familiar with.

To USCitizen:

They do? How so?

Keep in mind, I'm not disputing that there are certainly people enriched by being in government, including our politicians and lobbyists. I'm just interested that you think "the rich" -- as a group, not individual rich people -- own the government.

To michael h:

But you're again mixing things together. Morgan Stanley or Bank of America aren't the "central bank." Even Fannie Mae isn't.

Originally Posted by C-B-M

To USCitizen:

They do? How so?

Keep in mind, I'm not disputing that there are certainly people enriched by being in government, including our politicians and lobbyists. I'm just interested that you think "the rich" -- as a group, not individual rich people -- own the government.

CEO/Director: My American employees are stupid and I need to fire them and hire foreigners who have the skill set.
Congress: You're correct...Here's some new legislation to allow that.

CEO/Director: My American employees are stupid and I need to fire them and move overseas where the smart people are.
President: You're correct...Here's a new trade agreement to allow that.

CEO/Director: Whah! I'm paying too much in taxes in the US.
President: You're correct...Here's a new trade agreement to move to socialist and dictatorial nations where you don't have to pay your native nation any taxes, even though you make alomost all your profit from the American consumer. And go ahead and build some mansions.

CEO/Director: Whah! Why do you have to audit my investments to ensure that I'm not selling air at $1000.00/share?
President: You're correct...I'll tell the SEC and DOJ to leave you alone.

Come on, C-B-M, you sound too intelligent not to already know these events occurred and continue to occur.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

This discussion is veering way off course.
We were discussing how government coddles the rich and both parties vote in unison on this issue.

Thank you for a reality check Citizen. Reality is consensus of government policy ... and clearly consensus is defense spending/profits/war / expansionism, low taxes, job exports/free trade/corporate profits.

A neglect of government consensus would reveal that social security and medicaid was not actually a SACRIFICIAL DOG for defense spending, yet somehow it was ... hence reality remains consensus.

Where liberalism would support the above agendas, only makes the point that people must come back to reality.

A simple observation of the agendas addresses why they are a consensus ... money. Life is simple ... follow the money.

michael,
I don't get it.
What do these Cons read?
Do they read?
Do they only see and hear what they have been conditioned to perceive?
I listen to hard core Libs and they sound like robots.
I listen to hard core Cons and they sound like robots.

And these are not uneducated people.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

CEO/Director: My American employees are stupid and I need to fire them and hire foreigners who have the skill set.
Congress: You're correct...Here's some new legislation to allow that.

CEO/Director: My American employees are stupid and I need to fire them and move overseas where the smart people are.
President: You're correct...Here's a new trade agreement to allow that.

CEO/Director: Whah! I'm paying too much in taxes in the US.
President: You're correct...Here's a new trade agreement to move to socialist and dictatorial nations where you don't have to pay your native nation any taxes, even though you make alomost all your profit from the American consumer. And go ahead and build some mansions.

CEO/Director: Whah! Why do you have to audit my investments to ensure that I'm not selling air at $1000.00/share?
President: You're correct...I'll tell the SEC and DOJ to leave you alone.

Come on, C-B-M, you sound too intelligent not to already know these events occurred and continue to occur.

Follow the money ... it always leads to the scene of the crime!

Originally Posted by USCitizen

CEO/Director: My American employees are stupid and I need to fire them and hire foreigners who have the skill set.
Congress: You're correct...Here's some new legislation to allow that.

etc.

Uh, what? You don't need legislation to fire someone and outsource their job. And trade agreements don't have anything to do with a company moving overseas.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

michael,
I don't get it.
What do these Cons read?
Do they read?
Do they only see and hear what they have been conditioned to perceive?
I listen to hard core Libs and they sound like robots.
I listen to hard core Cons and they sound like robots.

And these are not uneducated people.

Quite honestly ... it is in our core ... all of us. Any battle in the world always starts over wanting something ... whether you should have it or not. Who ever had an argument over not wanting something?

So a broke idiot may demand a handout for life and a wealthy guy may demand your future.

Far from uneducated ... but sometimes wanting overrides reality and the two examples I listed in the previous sentence are proof.

Originally Posted by michael h

Quite honestly ... it is in our core ... all of us. Any battle in the world always starts over wanting something ... whether you should have it or not. Who ever had an argument over not wanting something?

So a broke idiot may demand a handout for life and a wealthy guy may demand your future.

Far from uneducated ... but sometimes wanting overrides reality and the two examples I listed in the previous sentence are proof.

I lapsed.
Thanks for reminding me.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

I listen to hard core Cons and they sound like robots.

But that's because you and michael h view outsourcing as some plot by corporations. I'm sorry that I don't buy into that view, which I suppose makes me a "robot." I'm quite happy with the free market and, as a conservative, if you're dissatisfied with your job being outsourced you have two options:

1) Start your own business; or
2) Get a new skill set.

But instead people who rail about outsourcing just demand that they be protected. That's silly to me. As I said to michael h, I don't expect you to change your mind, but you're hardly going to change mine by invoking conspiracy theories about how "the rich own the government and are using it to oppress the workers."

Originally Posted by C-B-M

Uh, what? You don't need legislation to fire someone and outsource their job. And trade agreements don't have anything to do with a company moving overseas.

Yes and that is why they waited until China PNTR for flight (lack of tariffs or reduced tariffs)

Cheap labor has always been available ... why didn't more companies move? Protectionism!