Thread: More Union Thuggery

Originally Posted by michael h

How is it an obscenity for Unions to strike back at those who jeopardize their lives and well being? These people are American hero's fighting for their livelihood. Why are the attacks on Unions and their members not an obscenity?

"Hero's [sic] fighting for their livelihood"?!?

What was "heroic" about destroying property and kidnapping these security guards?

Personally, I hope they identify the perpetrators and their leaders and prosecute them all to the fullest extent of the law. They won't need to worry about their jobs for quite a few years - the prison system will provide jobs for them.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

Woah! Isn't this exactly what robber barons used to do to their employees as they ventured out west?
In fact, the barons had state troopers and federal militias at their disposal to beat workers to death.
I think there's more than enough feelings of entitlement going on both sides.

Except that you're citing clear and obvious 'abuses by management' from early last century, and we're discussing clear and obvious 'abuses by union members' from this year. Hardly a valid 'both sides' comparison.

Originally Posted by MattInFla

"Hero's [sic] fighting for their livelihood"?!?

What was "heroic" about destroying property and kidnapping these security guards?

Personally, I hope they identify the perpetrators and their leaders and prosecute them all to the fullest extent of the law. They won't need to worry about their jobs for quite a few years - the prison system will provide jobs for them.

Matt ... And how is this different from the Brits tossing a successful colonial script, and causing poverty in America?

The Brits couldn't understand the lack of poverty in America ... Ben Franklin explained:

That is simple. In the Colonies, we issue our own paper money. It is called ‘Colonial Scrip.’ We issue it in proper proportion to make the goods and pass easily from the producers to the consumers. In this manner, creating ourselves our own paper money, we control its purchasing power and we have no interest to pay to no one.”

And why war:

The Colonies would gladly have borne the little tax on tea and other matters had it not been the poverty caused by the bad influence of the English bankers on the Parliament, which has caused in the Colonies hatred of England and the Revolutionary War.”

So our nation was created with the interests of prosperity and getting rid of greedy money makers.

As you can see the Tories and the enemy Brits were willing to destroy that prosperity. The tea partiers were hero's in the eyes of those suffering under the crushing slavery and poverty of the greedy.

The Tory and Brit response ... to the tea party:

Personally, I hope they identify the perpetrators and their leaders and prosecute them all to the fullest extent of the law. They won't need to worry about their jobs for quite a few years - the prison system will provide jobs for them.

Now what we have is poverty, taxation, and no representation. Prosperity has and is being stolen by the enemy (elite / corporate/ government) and they have their Tory supporters trying to bleed and milk the populace.

The enemy of the republic and the republics prosperity ... lies right in the within the republic ... justifying their actions in the name of God (bottom line).

This is nothing ... this tiny incident ... its just a tea party. An act of rebellion against the evil intent of the greedy, using laws and proper society to rape good people. Poverty is not bad enough yet for a rebellion ... IMHO.

Britain always had her supporters ... sippin tea ... pinkies up ... proper ... polite ... calling for the harsh punishment of good people ... not hearing their grievances ... to busy building their next mansion.

Yah the founding fathers, ask the Brits and tories about those rebellious scum bags.

Thugs is Thugs.

I support their right to strike, but the vandalism is wrong.

Originally Posted by michael h

Matt ... And how is this different from the Brits tossing a successful colonial script, and causing poverty in America?

Really? Kidnapping security guards is akin to the Revolution? Surely, you're not serious here.....

Try, if you can, to put yourself in the position of one of these hostages who was doing absolutely nothing wrong when they were attacked by these criminals.

And then explain how this criminal conduct was "heroic". More like cowardly, IMHO.

Originally Posted by MattInFla

Really? Kidnapping security guards is akin to the Revolution? Surely, you're not serious here.....

Try, if you can, to put yourself in the position of one of these hostages who was doing absolutely nothing wrong when they were attacked by these criminals.

And then explain how this criminal conduct was "heroic". More like cowardly, IMHO.

Were the guards harmed? Even a union man will recognize a guy doing his job.

How are the founding fathers different? They started a war and people were killed.

Colonies ... greed destroys prosperity and benefits a few ... rebellion.

US ... greed destroys prosperity and benefits a few ... a tiny tea party.

How is an attack on the prosperity different at any time in history? Is there not the greedy entitled? Are there not the lesser fighting for entitlement?

This is a fart in the wind ... they union boys cannot defeat the greedy ... who are to empowered.

Cowardly George Washington is amongst them union boys fighting for his American brothers.

Originally Posted by michael h

Were the guards harmed? Even a union man will recognize a guy doing his job.

Clearly, no, since they took these fellow working men as hostages. Even the act of being taken hostage constitutes harm, so your apparent argument that because they were not physically injured there is no foul is rubbish.

Originally Posted by michael h

How are the founding fathers different? They started a war and people were killed.

Colonies ... greed destroys prosperity and benefits a few ... rebellion.

US ... greed destroys prosperity and benefits a few ... a tiny tea party.

How is an attack on the prosperity different at any time in history? Is there not the greedy entitled? Are there not the lesser fighting for entitlement?

This is a fart in the wind ... they union boys cannot defeat the greedy ... who are to empowered.

Cowardly George Washington is amongst them union boys fighting for his American brothers.

If you are truly unable to differentiate between these completely incomparable circumstances, there is no point in our continuing this conversation. I'm confined to reality, you see...

Again, you've evaded my question - what was "heroic" about attacking these security workers and destroying property?

Is your standard for heroism truly that low?

If the perpetrators are identified, what do you think should happen to them?

Matt

But just for fun, I'll meet your bizarre analogy with one of my own:

The union members who took hostages at the shipyards are just like the Iranian terrorists who attacked the US embassy in Tehran.

(Gee, this is a fun game.)

Originally Posted by MattInFla

Clearly, no, since they took these fellow working men as hostages. Even the act of being taken hostage constitutes harm, so your apparent argument that because they were not physically injured there is no foul is rubbish.



If you are truly unable to differentiate between these completely incomparable circumstances, there is no point in our continuing this conversation. I'm confined to reality, you see...

Again, you've evaded my question - what was "heroic" about attacking these security workers and destroying property?

Is your standard for heroism truly that low?

If the perpetrators are identified, what do you think should happen to them?

Matt

Colonists rebelled against an attack on their prosperity. As yet Americans have done nothing against attacks on their prosperity. As I stated I don't believe there is enough suffering yet ... but I'm not an expert on psychology. I know the populace will tolerate quite a bit before acting like the founding fathers.

Is there harm in being taken hostage? Yes

Have you stepped up to the plate and admitted to any harm caused by the actions taken to benefit a few ... at the prosperity of many? No. I see it posted every day that its OK and justified ... bottom line ... it's OK.

So millions of citizens are harmed and their prosperity is destroyed ... and you ask me to answer for a few guards ... against those millions of Americans.

Here is the "reality" you ignore.

Prosperity is being attacked. You and many others have justified it already. Fact.

Those whose prosperity is being attacked ... don't like it, don't accept it, and some will be extreme in their response.

Being unrealistic ... is not understanding that our founding fathers were common criminals ... enemies of the state ... despised for their actions against the crown.

The founding fathers were hero's ... fighting against tea sippin elites and their attacks on prosperity. Willing to risk their freedom and lives against imperialistic overlords.

The union boys were hero's ... fighting against tea sippin elites and their attacks on prosperity. Willing to risk their freedom and lives against imperialistic overlords.

I don't expect you to see how the situations are comparable, I see it everyday in posts ... the justified theft of prosperity ... for the rights of a few who control law and government ... those who benefit richly. Same as it ever was.

What I don't understand is the lack of understanding of baseness, survival, instinct. Government does and they are prepared for such things.

The union boys should be celebrated.

Originally Posted by MattInFla

But just for fun, I'll meet your bizarre analogy with one of my own:

The union members who took hostages at the shipyards are just like the Iranian terrorists who attacked the US embassy in Tehran.

(Gee, this is a fun game.)

I have an analogy ... the millions of unemployed held hostage ... by corporations, elite, China, and government.

Oh wait ... that's justified reality ... what was I thinking.

Originally Posted by michael h

Is there harm in being taken hostage? Yes

Excellent, we're making progress. You agree that these union members harmed the security guards.

So, can you explain how harming these working men, who had done nothing whatsoever to the union members, was "heroic"?

You keep ducking that question, but it's not going away.

Originally Posted by michael h

Have you stepped up to the plate and admitted to any harm caused by the actions taken to benefit a few ... at the prosperity of many? No. I see it posted every day that its OK and justified ... bottom line ... it's OK.

Actually, I have condemned actions which have been taken to benefit a few at the expense of many. You've apparently decided that, in your very limited time here, you know everything about me and my positions.

You're wrong, but thanks anyway.

Originally Posted by michael h

So millions of citizens are harmed and their prosperity is destroyed ... and you ask me to answer for a few guards ... against those millions of Americans.

Here is the "reality" you ignore.

Prosperity is being attacked. You and many others have justified it already. Fact.

Please quote me justifying this. Or is this, perhaps, happening only in your imagination?

Originally Posted by michael h

The union boys were hero's ... fighting against tea sippin elites and their attacks on prosperity. Willing to risk their freedom and lives against imperialistic overlords.

Really? Please explain who these "tea sippin elites" are, and exactly how kidnapping some security guards harmed them in any way.

We've gotten to the point where you acknowledge the harm done to the security guards. Please explain how any harm was done to the "tea sippin elites"?

If you can't, then it seems the only harm done was to these working men who had the misfortune to be doing their jobs when the union members decided to be goons.

Originally Posted by michael h

The union boys should be celebrated.

You've already admitted that these "union boys" harmed innocent men. Please explain why that is worthy of celebration?

Matt

Holy crap, I can't believe that people are seriously sitting here and defending what the union guys did and other people have to actually explain what was wrong about it to them. I have better things to do than waste my time on that. For example, I could be staring at the walls for ten hours, which would be more productive.

ahoy MattLarson,

matey, whilst i agree that the actions 'o these folks was unfortunate, and i do not support thar method 'o protest, i don't know why ye insist in linkin' the actions 'o these men to organized labor.

the Union leaders have already disavowed this violent protest.

to make the linkage ye keep makin', 'tis like sayin' that thar be a problem with white blue collar laborers....since the individuals who participated in this riot were overwhelmingly white.

The roots of segregation and white supremacy in the Longshore Division are very deep. It is the Port of San Francisco where the world-renowned progressive and workers solidarity history was established, not the Pacific Northwest where problems regarding racism, sexism and all forms of discrimination are pervasive today.

ILWU convention denies voices of Black members

- MeadHallPirate