Thread: 23.7 million Americans Remain Unemployed / Underemployed

Absolutely...the devil's in the details.
The warehouse jobs will disappear until the next holiday.
One of my friends, a mathematician, is stacking shelves at Stop & Shop.

This was actually a reply to a post in another thread so if it seems out of place......just deal with it!!

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It's an improvement but a lot of those jobs (120k of them) were in transportation, warehousing and retail...all related to an anticipated surge in holiday retail sales. If this change is simply related to temporary hiring for the holidays then we didn't improve by much.

From a personal perspective I am starting to see some changes. I hesitate to call them "positive" changes because they all seem to be related to acceptance of the economy rather than enthusiasm for it but that's better than fear of the economy. I think that this change is due to the fact that people are realizing that nothing substantial is going to change for the next year or two whereas in 2009 and 2010 huge changes seemed to be coming from every direction.

As I have said before, the strength of an economy is based on predictability and last year was an indication that congress wasn't likely to make things worse so it really made sense to start bringing out shovels against the tide instead of just sandbagging and hoping to salvage whatever wasn't destroyed.

Bump...

Only the GOP can hate good news this much. The only way they are not going to be thrown out this year is by attempting to lie to the public. Like Romney's peddling net job creation numbers under Obama that factor in the million + jobs lost the first few months of his presidency before his policies took effect. It's the only way the GOP can get any traction in their arguments because frankly, Obama's record is looking pretty damn good about now. More jobs created in 2011 than any year since 2005. 3.7 million total jobs created under Obama. BOOM!

Originally Posted by Danny

Only the GOP can hate good news this much.

As I pointed out Danny... while 'good' news, it's not GREAT news and a whole bunch of people... tens of millions are still hurting.

Even if we take your 3.7 million number... which I don't... more unemployed people left the workforce in Nov and Dec than got jobs under Obama. 2 million in December alone.

And I keep repeating myself on this point, one you refuse to understand: how people FEEL about the economy in Nov 2012 is going to be the determining factor for Obama. Right now... they think he sucks. 10 months from now? This 'good news' is not likely to change their minds... no matter how much you huff and puff.

In fact... the more you guys on the left try and 'pump up' the economy those tens of millions that are still hurting... and their friends and family, are likely to think you... and Obama... are full of shit.

You have been warned...

Here is an interesting analysis of the situation -
Real Jobless Rate Is 11.4% With Realistic Labor Force Participation Rate | ZeroHedge

I haven't had time to look at the hard data but I like the methodology....and I like this line -

And because we know this will be the next question, extending this lunacy, America will officially have no unemployed, when the Labor Force Participation rate hits 58.5%, which should be just before the presidential election.

Originally Posted by tsquare

As I pointed out Danny... while 'good' news, it's not GREAT news and a whole bunch of people... tens of millions are still hurting.

Even if we take your 3.7 million number... which I don't... more unemployed people left the workforce in Nov and Dec than got jobs under Obama. 2 million in December alone.

And I keep repeating myself on this point, one you refuse to understand: how people FEEL about the economy in Nov 2012 is going to be the determining factor for Obama. Right now... they think he sucks. 10 months from now? This 'good news' is not likely to change their minds... no matter how much you huff and puff.

In fact... the more you guys on the left try and 'pump up' the economy those tens of millions that are still hurting... and their friends and family, are likely to think you... and Obama... are full of shit.

You have been warned...

No, the public still gives President Obama very high "favorability" numbers, meaning they like him personally. They want him to succeed.

He still scores over 70% on "Do you like the man personally?".

But he's only just even when it comes to his job approval rating.

With you teabaggers actually publicly making the argument that what Wall St. really needs is even MORE deregulation and that the public shouldn't have a Consumer Protection Agency, you're actually going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory once more.

So weird.

It's usually Democrats who know how to fuck up a good thing, not Republicans.

But ever since the public soured on the baggers after their abhorrent debt ceiling behavior (Americans like confidence but not arrogance, just like women with men) and then by actually giving away their own strength a couple weeks ago and handing Democrats the tax cuts issue, we're watching a zealous teabagger party of ignoramuses about to fumble an election they should easily win.

So the American public doesn't think Obama "sucks" just because you tell yourself they do.

You have emotion on your side, not facts.

The large jobless rate and underemployment rate is the cost of no longer making much of what america consumes, in a consumption based economy. The crash just made it visible.

If anyone is looking for a return to acceptable employment levels, I hope you have decades in which to watch for it. This economic model has a great flaw, but you can ignore it.

Service industry work will not fix it. Only making what you consume will fix it. But that ain't gonna happen, so just get used to it. There ain't no free lunches in this world, and this employment problem is the cost of off shoring consumer good production. Yeah, when you ship away millions of jobs, you have millions that don't have jobs. DUH.

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

With you teabaggers

Jason... everyone here knows and remembers that I treated you with respect and deference for your posts on the Iowa Caucuses.

Now you have chosen to give me the back of your hand.

Let everyone here remember that as well…

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

No, the public still gives President Obama very high "favorability" numbers, meaning they like him personally. They want him to succeed.

He still scores over 70% on "Do you like the man personally?".

There is a big difference between liking someone personally and liking their ideology. For example, I think it'd be an absolute hoot to hang out and have a beer with Charlie Manson but I wouldn't be too keen on having him run the government.

As far as "shouldn't have a Consumer Protection Agency" there is already a consumer protection bureau under the FTC and the CPSC as well as the DoJ. On top of that pretty much every State has consumer protection agencies. The Federal government doesn't have to - and damned well shouldn't - try to be all things to all people.

One can find bad news even in the best jobs reports. I remember the Clinton years and how Rush Limbaugh insisted during the entire 90s boom that things were terrible because Sears was laying people off or something.

This jobs report, like most of the jobs reports before it, is quite good. I actually don't think a good economy will matter much for Obama, because the left has invested itself in the failure of capitalism or something.

I would like to see an age group breakdown of underemployment.

Technically if you are 18 and over and employed you are counted. What if you are 18-25 and in college and working part time at McDonalds? That is considered under employed isn't it?

Some honest numbers would be nice.

If you are unemployed for 24 weeks you are no longer counted.
If you stop reporting to your local DOL at least 3 resume submissions a week you are not counted.
If you submit your resume and it is ignored, the company you submitted it to uses that as feedback to the BLS that they can't find an America with the necessary skillset.
Yes, Pubs + Dems can svk my Dyck.