Thread: Free Trade vs Protectionism

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

I am unwilling to compromise the right to my own life under any pretext whatsoever. The Left has nothing I am willing to get in exchange for the right to my own life. They may kill me. But then, they will only have my dead corpse. They will never have my subjugated loyalty.

Here I stand, I can do no other.

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

Rush Limbaugh taught me the Left's idea of compromise is for the Right to give in.

You are correct; And that's a good thing.
The bad thing is that he hard breaks Independents on a dime.

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

The Left has nothing I am willing to get in exchange for the right to my own life. They may kill me. But then, they will only have my dead corpse. They will never have my subjugated loyalty.

They won't kill you because we won't allow them; if they succeed they're coming after me next.

Originally Posted by 9aces

Yes it is fun. I rather enjoy illustrating your ignorance in what you post, because you have no concept of their genesis.

Sorry sport, I'm well aware of the genesis.

Originally Posted by 9aces

Who enslaved the Irish? Restricted what they could grow on the land they lived on, and did not own, in many if not most cases could not own.

The Irish were not "enslaved" like the African American in the U.S. or what American Indians did to each other if they caught a rouge wandering into a rival tribe.

Originally Posted by 9aces

Yes indeed the grain merchants made money, but who set them in power, and kept them in power?

The union between Ireland and England of 1800 established that law and property rights could be enforced with English troops.

Originally Posted by 9aces

Even the link you provided gave you the answer, but you lacked the ability to understand it.

"A crowd of starving unemployed entered the town, threatened merchants and shopkeepers, ordering them not to export grain, and plundered shops. The Resident Magistrate had the ringleaders arrested and put in the lock-up, upon which the crowd declared they would not go home until the prisoners were released.
After the police had tried, in vain, to clear the streets, the 1st Royal Dragoons were called out; the crowd began to pelt them with stones and the Riot Act was read. But as stone-throwing continued the officer commanding the Dragoons, Captain Sibthorp, gave the order to fire, and twenty-six shots were fired into the crowd, which then retreated. Several men were wounded and two were left lying on the ground, dead.”

That's the government you wanted to fix the problem sport.

Toodles.

The troops were sent to protect property rights - just as you endorse.

Property rights are above all else.

Steve

machine,
I apologize but I'm looking for your quotes of the FF concerning protectionism.
You had John Adams, etc...
Can you point to it or repost?

Originally Posted by machinehead61

The Irish were not "enslaved" like the African American in the U.S. or what American Indians did to each other if they caught a rouge wandering into a rival tribe.

Oh, well if they were not enslaved that way I guess everything is okey dokey then.

Originally Posted by machinehead61

Sorry sport, I'm well aware of the genesis.

Then you should start acting like you understand it.

Originally Posted by machinehead61

The Irish were not "enslaved" like the African American in the U.S. or what American Indians did to each other if they caught a rouge wandering into a rival tribe.

The words "debt peonage" are words you've never heard before?

Originally Posted by machinehead61

The union between Ireland and England of 1800 established that law and property rights could be enforced with English troops.

Yeah...England conquered Ireland. After the revolt of 1798, the English decided Ireland didn't need to be self-governed. You sort of left out all the people disposed of their property there and given to English lords and lackeys.

Originally Posted by machinehead61

The troops were sent to protect property rights - just as you endorse.

I've never endorsed government kill people to protect the property of anyone.

Originally Posted by machinehead61

Property rights are above all else.

Individual rights, which include the right to your property.

You don't understand what freedom is, you're scared to death of the concept, which is why you can't distinguish any difference.

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

Oh, well if they were not enslaved that way I guess everything is okey dokey then.

Yeah, having the government throw you out of your home if you don't pay rent on the land that was stolen from you but they allow you to live on if you work yourself to death isn't slavery.

Originally Posted by machinehead61

The typical all-or-nothing ignorance of an anarchist.

As soon as anyone dares to suggest a COMPROMISE between the selfish interest of the individual and the collective welfare of the entire society - the anarchist screams that you want a TOTALITARIAN GOVERNMENT.

Because anarchists don't understand compromise - it isn't in the anarchist's dictionary.

All they know or understand is ALL-OR-NOTHING.

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

Exactly. Between being free and being a slave, I am unwilling to compromise - even if you call me selfish, anarchist, etc.

Which is why extremists such as you and 9aces are quietly pushed off to the side in your supreme irrelevance.

Your lack of logic and lack of understanding of the real world and how compromise is a working principle behind regulated capitalism that has been practiced without the fictional slippery slope down to totalitarianism, are clearly demonstrated every second of every day.

Every now and then your type come out from your padded cells to rant and rave your irrationalities and the rest of the world moves on without you as if you never existed.

Rant away my friend, maybe you'll convince the padding in your cell of your correctness. The rest of the world has left you behind your stone walls where you belong more than a century ago.

Steve

Originally Posted by 9aces

Then you should start acting like you understand it.

The problem is you don't understand it.

Originally Posted by 9aces

The words "debt peonage" are words you've never heard before?

Do tell. Go dig up your comprehensive doctoral thesis on "debt peonage" and "slavery" in Ireland and then go explain how the Irish "slaves" somehow escaped from their "slavery".

How many Irish slipped under the careful eye of their "slave owners"?

History of Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The impact of emigration in Ireland was severe; the population dropped from over 8 million before the Famine to 4.4 million in 1911.

Originally Posted by 9aces

Yeah...England conquered Ireland. After the revolt of 1798, the English decided Ireland didn't need to be self-governed. You sort of left out all the people disposed of their property there and given to English lords and lackeys.

And this is exactly what you endorse. Selfish pursuit of your own interests to the detriment of all around you. The capitalists in England used the government to force their will over Ireland for the selfish self-interest of the landlords who were more often residing in England.

Now you give lip service to one individual's pursuit not trampling upon the rights of another, but you turn the most supreme blind eye to the reality of human nature when you toss out the values of "love thy neighbor as thy self" and replace it with "love thy self and too bad about my neighbor".

Sooner or later the greed that you now institutionalize and fully and proudly endorse and promote will sooner or later sprout unintended consequences that you never dreamed of - but human nature will produce like clockwork.


Great Famine (Ireland) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1843, the British Government considered that the land question in Ireland was the root cause of disaffection in the country. They set up a Royal Commission, chaired by the Earl of Devon, to inquire into the laws with regard to the occupation of land in Ireland. Daniel O'Connell described this commission as perfectly one-sided, being made up of landlords and no tenants.[16] Devon in February 1845 reported that "It would be impossible adequately to describe the privations which they [Irish labourer and his family] habitually and silently endure . . . in many districts their only food is the potato, their only beverage water . . . their cabins are seldom a protection against the weather... a bed or a blanket is a rare luxury . . . and nearly in all their pig and a manure heap constitute their only property." The Commissioners concluded that they could not "forbear expressing our strong sense of the patient endurance which the labouring classes have exhibited under sufferings greater, we believe, than the people of any other country in Europe have to sustain."

Originally Posted by 9aces

I've never endorsed government kill people to protect the property of anyone.

No, you never have and never will.

You do something ten times more deadly.

You attack and destroy with all of your might the very self-regulating values that can prevent the situation from occuring. The Christian values that our own government were founded upon and all of human society - you rip from society and replace it with the most animalistic and primitive instinct - care only about yourself. You don't owe anything to anybody. Seek the pleasure of self and reject social responsibility. As you put it.....

Originally Posted by 9aces

Individual rights, which include the right to your property.

You destroy the foundation of human society and replace it with the most destructive force in human nature - only care about yourself.

Then you twist and distort and reinterpret history to place all blame on this dark sinister evil - government - as if government came from another planet composed of aliens devoid of all human values.

I have a news flash for you sport.

GOVERNMENT IS CREATED BY AND OF PEOPLE.

The government you create must govern a people who posses some kind of value system.

Originally Posted by 9aces

You don't understand what freedom is, you're scared to death of the concept, which is why you can't distinguish any difference.

You and JohnLocke don't even begin to understand "freedom".

The founding fathers - every last one of them - warned future generations against exactly what you and JohnLocke endorse.

And in your supreme ignorance you haven't a mother loving clue what I am talking about.

Drown in your profound ignorance.

Come on 9aces, quote the founding fathers - as many as you want - about what I'm talking about.

You don't even begin to understand.

Steve

Originally Posted by machinehead61

compromise is a working principle behind regulated capitalism that has been practiced without the fictional slippery slope down to totalitarianism, are clearly demonstrated every second of every day.

LOL Compromise is a principle! LOL

Don't look now but we live in a totalitarian State. I cannot even give my kid a turkey sandwich without some bureaucrat claiming it is not healthy enough while they push pink slim!

Originally Posted by machinehead61

The problem is you don't understand it.

Sigh, you'll never get it.

Originally Posted by machinehead61

Do tell. Go dig up your comprehensive doctoral thesis on "debt peonage" and "slavery" in Ireland and then go explain how the Irish "slaves" somehow escaped from their "slavery".

How many Irish slipped under the careful eye of their "slave owners"?

Lots, how many slaves escaped under the careful eyes of their slave owners throughout history? Lots.

Originally Posted by machinehead61

History of Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh look, it's a wikipedia sighting. Should I go edit it to say "machinehead is an idiot?"

Originally Posted by machinehead61

And this is exactly what you endorse. Selfish pursuit of your own interests to the detriment of all around you. The capitalists in England used the government to force their will over Ireland for the selfish self-interest of the landlords who were more often residing in England.

You said it, and you don't get it. Used GOVERNMENT to force their will. Which I why I've said time and again, you just don't understand freedom at all. Using GOVERNMENT to get what you want, is the system you worship that can do no wrong. Never mind that you posted links up you thought defended your position, and just pointed out where GOVERNMENT was the tool of oppression and murder. I don't endorse the use of force against anyone, especially me.

Originally Posted by machinehead61

Now you give lip service to one individual's pursuit not trampling upon the rights of another, but you turn the most supreme blind eye to the reality of human nature when you toss out the values of "love thy neighbor as thy self" and replace it with "love thy self and too bad about my neighbor".

Too bad about my neighbor, if they are unwilling to care for themselves. I'm under no obligation to do it for them if they refuse to do so.

Originally Posted by machinehead61

Sooner or later the greed that you now institutionalize and fully and proudly endorse and promote will sooner or later sprout unintended consequences that you never dreamed of - but human nature will produce like clockwork.

If you give it a vehicle like a government to wield that power, yes. Some will seek to form one in order to wield power. So?

Self-interest is not greed however. You're so afraid of other people however, it's not surprising you don't see the distinction.

Originally Posted by machinehead61

Great Famine (Ireland) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kinda collaborates exactly what I said doesn't it?

Originally Posted by machinehead61

No, you never have and never will.

You do something ten times more deadly.

You attack and destroy with all of your might the very self-regulating values that can prevent the situation from occuring. The Christian values that our own government were founded upon and all of human society - you rip from society and replace it with the most animalistic and primitive instinct - care only about yourself. You don't owe anything to anybody. Seek the pleasure of self and reject social responsibility. As you put it.....

You're afraid man cannot rule himself. I don't seem to remember ever saying it would be easy, quick, or bloodless.

Man must learn how, and he cannot learn this lesson while being ruled by the most corrupt. That governments are ruled by corruption is a fact no sane person can dispute.

Originally Posted by machinehead61

You destroy the foundation of human society and replace it with the most destructive force in human nature - only care about yourself.

Being self-interested does not mean you only care about yourself. If you've been listening, you'd know this.

Originally Posted by machinehead61

Then you twist and distort and reinterpret history to place all blame on this dark sinister evil - government - as if government came from another planet composed of aliens devoid of all human values.

Government has values?

Originally Posted by machinehead61

I have a news flash for you sport.

GOVERNMENT IS CREATED BY AND OF PEOPLE.

In order to rule them. Some people, like you are so afraid of life you want to be ruled, so you'll feel safe from the rest of humanity.

Originally Posted by machinehead61

The government you create must govern a people who posses some kind of value system.

Why create a government?

Originally Posted by machinehead61

You and JohnLocke don't even begin to understand "freedom".

The founding fathers - every last one of them - warned future generations against exactly what you and JohnLocke endorse.

Was that when they said things like

"I believe banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies"
"I have never believed there was one code of morality for a public and another for a private man."
"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education."
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock."
"Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself."
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. "
"Freedom is not a gift bestowed upon us by other men, but a right that belongs to us by the laws of God and nature. "
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters. "
"Because power corrupts, society's demands for moral authority and character increase as the importance of the position increases."
"Democracy... while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide."

And my personal favorite from John Adams.

"Fear is the foundation of most governments."

Originally Posted by machinehead61

And in your supreme ignorance you haven't a mother loving clue what I am talking about.

Well you don't have a clue what you're talking about, so how am I supposed to figure out your insanity?

Originally Posted by machinehead61

Drown in your profound ignorance.

Come on 9aces, quote the founding fathers - as many as you want - about what I'm talking about.

You don't even begin to understand.

Steve

See above.

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

LOL Compromise is a principle! LOL

Don't look now but we live in a totalitarian State. I cannot even give my kid a turkey sandwich without some bureaucrat claiming it is not healthy enough while they push pink slim!

He doesn't have any principles John, thus compromise is perfectly acceptable to him on anything.

I think pink slime is being vilified again btw. Apparently lean beef is bad.