Thread: Marginal Utility

How do we reduce income discrepancies? The top 3 ways being, training, training, training. and more training and eliminating the habituated welfare recipients by making them work according to their means in menial public service programs similar to FDR's FDR, CCC and WPA: How the government fought the Depression | GoErie.com/Erie Times-News

That way needed programs get done and it puts people to work to justify their assistance. Many infrastructure improvements were made during that program.

[QUOTE=dnsmith;2064741]

Originally Posted by goober

...When we reduced/eliminated corporate taxation giving the supply side the impetus to expand thus opening up employment. As it is, corporate taxation is not so much used as revenue, it is used by congress/administrations a means by which to play favorites which makes money the draw to an area instead of a trained labor force being the draw.

I propose eliminating corporate taxes and increasing taxes on that portion of individual income derived from corporate profits. (Stock dividends, not long term capital gain.) I also believe we should not tax corporate "gains" which are there strictly as a result of inflation instead of actual increased value adjusted for inflation.

Any time capital is significantly taxed labor tends to pay the price of that tax. How? By moving that capital to a lower tax and labor cost area. In short, the extremist left wing side of the equation are more to blame for off shore business/labor than the extreme conservative side. Moderation is the way to go, moving back from both fringes and recognizing an old adage, what is good for corporate America is good for all of America, because without out corporate America our jobs would collapse. Paying moderate attention to this adage instead of extremes will move us out of recession faster and make the high business cycles higher.

We also have to do something to reduce/eliminate deficits/debt. Raising taxes across the personal income tax board with graduated surcharges on brackets over $300K is necessary and reducing spending for unneeded/under performing programs while maintaining all programs which have been paid for with money or blood from the recipients will help.

I do believe we should help the truly needy, those who cannot work because of physical or mental disability. I also believe we need to be more practical about handouts to others as we have created a generation or two who are addicted to handouts and wouldn't know how to work if we trained them. (also called malingerers)

When did reduced taxation actually work to stimulate long term growth?

[QUOTE=goober;2064916]

Originally Posted by dnsmith

When did reduced taxation actually work to stimulate long term growth?

When has Government Spending actually gotten us out of a Recession or Depression?

What is long term growth? Need a definition or time frame.

[QUOTE=Wlessard;2064942]

Originally Posted by goober

When has Government Spending actually gotten us out of a Recession or Depression?

What is long term growth? Need a definition or time frame.

I'll answer your question, in the 1940's government spending got the country out of the great depression. Just about every recession since was shortened by government spending.

The current situation is not a typical recession, it is the result of a financial collapse, like 1930, and those take a decade or more to work out.

Now answer mine, When have reduced taxes produced long term growth?
Or put another way when have reduced taxes produced growth sufficient to pay off the deficit created by the reduced taxes?

Originally Posted by goober

It doesn't matter which side, both sides actually, but it is substantially reduced when wealth is less concentrated. And this country, under this constitution, does not do well with political extremism.
When did that happen?

JFK, Reagan, Eisenhower, Truman. No matter, there will always be the rich, and their will always be the poor, even the bible acknowledges that.

[QUOTE=goober;2064916]

Originally Posted by dnsmith

When did reduced taxation actually work to stimulate long term growth?

JFK, Eisenhower, Reagan

Originally Posted by Wlessard

Originally Posted by goober

When has Government Spending actually gotten us out of a Recession or Depression?

Not my comment.

What is long term growth? Need a definition or time frame.

Long term growth are periods which even with down business cycles the end result of a time period averages more at the end than at the beginning. I believe the lowest term would be 2 years and the longer terms 10 and up.

[QUOTE=goober;2064971]

Originally Posted by Wlessard

I'll answer your question, in the 1940's government spending got the country out of the great depression. Just about every recession since was shortened by government spending.

The current situation is not a typical recession, it is the result of a financial collapse, like 1930, and those take a decade or more to work out.

Now answer mine, When have reduced taxes produced long term growth?
Or put another way when have reduced taxes produced growth sufficient to pay off the deficit created by the reduced taxes?

Most of our periods of lower taxes have not created deficits. Even Bush's tax cuts were not responsible for deficit spending as much as excessive spending created deficit spending.

Originally Posted by goober

Originally Posted by Wlessard

I'll answer your question, in the 1940's government spending got the country out of the great depression. Just about every recession since was shortened by government spending.

Yeah like the war was planned. It is not as if the Government said lets go to war and boost the economy as a result.

The current situation is not a typical recession, it is the result of a financial collapse, like 1930, and those take a decade or more to work out.

The Great Depression as many economists are saying, I have linked this in other threads and not really going to waste my time on you with the links since you wont care either way, was prolonged by as much as 7 years due to the spending by the government.

Now answer mine, When have reduced taxes produced long term growth?
Or put another way when have reduced taxes produced growth sufficient to pay off the deficit created by the reduced taxes?

Reagan to 2008, about the longest continuous growth of GDP. It was fueled by Reagan Tax cuts. Even with the FED raising interest around 1990 it continued to climb. Clinton moved back towards center from the left allowing business to expand though with the rush to technology even the increase in the top marginal rate to 39.6% at the time. Bush Tax cuts also kept it going.

Once the bubble burst and the world reverberated from it, the recession was a done deal. Many other factors affected the economy such as the Terrorist attacks and going to war didn't help as it strained our already fragile economy. 2006 elections putting Democrats in charge of the purse strings caused issues that took a couple years to unfold as well.

Reducing taxes does not create a deficit, failure to reduce spending does.

Originally Posted by Wlessard

Reagan to 2008, about the longest continuous growth of GDP. It was fueled by Reagan Tax cuts. Even with the FED raising interest around 1990 it continued to climb. Clinton moved back towards center from the left allowing business to expand though with the rush to technology even the increase in the top marginal rate to 39.6% at the time. Bush Tax cuts also kept it going.

Once the bubble burst and the world reverberated from it, the recession was a done deal. Many other factors affected the economy such as the Terrorist attacks and going to war didn't help as it strained our already fragile economy. 2006 elections putting Democrats in charge of the purse strings caused issues that took a couple years to unfold as well.

Reducing taxes does not create a deficit, failure to reduce spending does.

I am a moderate democrat, but I have to say AMEN to your post. Now, if the conservatives will come on board for good public education, universal medical care, aid to the truly needy and a program like FDR's CCC and WPA we can come to a more general agreement. It is my opinion that 99.9% of all the economic conspiracies and social hold back are bunk and junk. Same same for the conspiracies about 9/11, JFK's assassination, Robt K's assassination, MLK's assassination etc and et al.

[QUOTE=dnsmith;2065051]

Originally Posted by goober

Most of our periods of lower taxes have not created deficits. Even Bush's tax cuts were not responsible for deficit spending as much as excessive spending created deficit spending.

When? When have lower taxes created the growth that paid back the deficit created by the lower taxes?

Originally Posted by dnsmith

JFK, Eisenhower, Reagan

Guess again, When Eisenhower was president the top tax rate was 91%, Reagan tripled the debt, JFK raised the effective tax rate by dropping the top rates, but removing deductions.

Originally Posted by goober

Guess again, When Eisenhower was president the top tax rate was 91%, Reagan tripled the debt, JFK raised the effective tax rate by dropping the top rates, but removing deductions.

The economy boomed, federal revenues went WAY up, and still the congress spent all the extra...and then some via the tax cuts that went in while Reagan was in office.

Did you miss that? Obviously.