If you were serious about your position, you would make personal sacrifices. You seem unwilling to do that. You criticize the current economic machine, and then, hypocritically, accept it in the form of a raise.

If you're so sure that your ideas are right, be a man and stand up for them. Thus far, all you've done is prove, through your own admission, how big of a hypocrite you are...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Yes. Im a huge hypocrite. Its not relevant though, it just personalizes the discussion, and thats lame. Hypocrisy has nothing to do with the broader ideas.

What sort of sacrifices could i make that would bring down the global economy, do you have any suggestions?

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Being a resoundingly bad idea, it would be frighteningly silly of you to look to me for suggestions.

You're the one who says it would be good if it happened. So, man up, think of something, and do something about it...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/item/books-978158322724/1583227245/Endgame-Volume-2-Resistance-Volume-2-Resistance?ref=Search+Books%3a+'endgame'

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

And your point is?

Oh, wait... you have none...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

My point is that there are already strategies articulated by many people.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

You know, it's actually kinda' comical.

You seem to present that as if it might impact me somehow. The only impact it has on me is to show me how much some people think of their own ideas, and how little you do...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Theres some men and women a few km from me who run around naked in the forest and build huts maybe you can try that . This is a good season to start.

there are a lot of organisations that are looking at sustainable practises - and it is possible - it takes thinking outside the square thats all. A bit late, but better late than never. Maybe its only because its biting now that so many companies are coming on board.

The thing is, in wartime, populations can be mobilised, they are prepared to put up with rations. if we look at this as being an emergency (which it is) and are prepared to make some sacrifices, we will be on the way.

But more importantly, you have to have governments who are prepared to invest in the kind of infrastructure, codes and regulations that will make it possible.

You can't choose public transport so easily if there are no efficient public transport networks, you will be discouraged from using 'green power' if it costs 50% more than other power, if sustainable products are more expensive/not available you can't choose them, if new housing stock isn't built to reduce energy usage, you can't buy more sustainable housing ... and there needs to be incentives to encourage refurbishment and adaption of pre existing stock.

And if governments do it, then those companies that are straggling and wasting resources etc will eventually come on line if they want to survive.

making an effort is much better than throwing up our hands and putting it in the too hard basket.

our children and grandchildren deserve our best effort on this.

on a side issue - when I look at responses on this thread it probably shouldn't surprise me.

I was talking to a friend in the US a couple of weeks ago and we were discussing media coverage of environmental issues.

He tends to watch PBS and ABC - but it seems even these don't show anything like the amount of material on climate change that we get here.

We have a show - eco house - reality TV with two families having to face 'eco challenges' and cut greenhouse emissions. One couple from this show were interviewed on another show, and were talking about how EASY it was to cut their emissions once they started. We have a documentary most nights on one station or another which looks at environmental issues, and most nights int he news bulletins there is some reference to what is going on.

maybe its because it affects us ... who knows ... but I think the LACK of information about what is happening (and the fact that 50% of Americans use Fox as their primary news source - and Fox is KNOWN to take an antagonistic stance) is the reason why so many americans appear so ignorant.

The government also has had a role to play in keeping americans in the dark.

This one just came to light:


BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Climate change 'can be tackled'

even in Australia - a nation that has something to lose with our reliance on coal for power and as an export industry - experts are saying that it is not going to be so expensive as we imagine.

Americans like to believe that they have a free press, but it's not true. Most of the print and broadcast media are owned and controlled by 3-4 huge corporations. Anyone who wants a wider range of sources should shut-off their useless TV set and get on the internet. One can access papers and magazines from all over the world, scientific publications that are publishing reports on new research, and there are message boards and discussion sites where you can make contact with people from all over to ask questions and share information.

Reading the posts on climate change by the naysayers demonstrates the pitiful lack of knowledge that most Americans struggle with daily. Sal Munella hasn't even heard about depleted uranium armor piercing bullets and danger they pose to human health. It's embarassing when so many Americans only response to the truth about what's going on in the world is "No Sir!, no sir! That's not true! Uh uh! That's BS."

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

Like, for example: running away from the other predators; trying to find some way of keeping warm; looking for, stalking, and attempting to kill something to eat. Just those carefree, lackadaisical days on the plains. Oh, the life.

You should join the Peace Corps, Andrew. Those guys get to go to all sorts of places and "experience the natural world."

prior to European settlement, the average time spent 'working' per day among Australian aborigines - even in a harsh climate - was less than 3 hours.

One of the things that was worth noting as well is that, compared to the average European, these poor, primitive hunter gatherers had a much healthier diet, with a greater range of foods, and a healthier lifestyle, than the average European of the day.

the quality of life went down of course when these people came into contact with europeans - some of it for social reasons, some of it through spread of disease, but also through eating european foods - which took far more time to produce - but which were often lacking in nutrition compared to the traditional diet.

even though our soils here are very poor, and are often said to be lacking in trace elements.

poverty and malnutrition have often increased due to western interventions/the introduction of broad acre farming/cash crop/for western markets. You might like to take a look at Vandana Shiva's work to look at the Indian situation with the so called 'green revolutions.' There are plenty of other examples around the world which show the impact on local communities has been negatively affected by so called 'improvements' that might increase overall GNP - and you have to remember that even negative externalities increase GNP.

In any case. I don't think Andrew was saying we should all live in caves .... I don't know if you realise, Cato - but there are several (hundreds) of possible lifestyle variations in between there and here.

As opposed to getting cancer at the factory, dying in a car wreck, being shot at school, getting robbed in the back alley, or if your a woman having at least a 25% chance of getting raped. But oh, look what we have achieved, now we can get fat on the couch watching American idol and die of heart disease. How impressive. I could go on and on about the dangers of civilization, most of them only to reveal how utterly pathetic and useless the modern human animal really is.

When you can tell me how the modern sedentary lifestyle is an improvement over our natural undomesticated state, let me know.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown